The back-to-back nature of the two Innistrad releases made for a very short announcement window and not one we want to take action in. We’re pretty happy with where things are and look forward to the influx of cards from Crimson Vow.
Our next announcement will be for the Kamigawa: Neon Dynasty release, on February 7.
8 thoughts on “November 2021 Quarterly Update (Crimson Vow)”
I would like to hear, at least in part, the philosophy behind the legality of Thassas Oracle. I know that the primary defense of keeping this card legal is that the card doesn’t see a lot of casual play, but I think that it starts to encroach on the upper levels of causal games. Around this power level, where I often find myself, combos are cool and many of my lgs stores play for prizes. Further, we find enjoyment in exploring strong synergies and powerful gameplay while not invoking a cEDH mindset. It is at this power level, which I call high end casual, that I think that’s sad Oracle is a problem. It is very difficult to decide when thassa Oracle is appropriate for power level. ItObviously rule 0 can mitigate this, but there is no doubt it is the most efficient and difficult to interact with wincon in the game and it is not always appropriate to rule zero cards; especially when playing for prizes. Due to its etb win effect, deck building and counter play become increasingly difficult. For instance, red, black, and green decks have a brutally hard time defending and reacting to the combo with tainted pact or consultation. Lab man and lab jace can at least be destroyed by these colors, allowing for counter play and introducing risk to the combo. Presently only blue and white can reliably stop this combo, and only if white elects to play stax effects or a random angel’s grace. MAYBE red has elemental blast. Maybe.
I think that this combo flies in the face of previous statements by the rules committee that wins out of nowhere are unhealthy. While I think two card combos should exist, they should not be this potent, this efficient (3 mana) and in the two most powerful colors in edh. These are issues I’ve noticed in non cedh pods where more casual players have focused on the card being their wincon. That doesn’t mean that they are playing cedh however, as their mindsets and game plans are more casual. However, the threat of a thoracle combo places strain on non stax decks and non blue decks across the board. And stax is often frowned upon anyway in casual pods in a way I haven’t seen thassas Oracle.
P.S. if someone needs an advocate for emrakul unban I’m your guy.
I’d love to hear your thoughts!
Per the philosophy document, the banlist does not seek to regulate power level. There will always be a most efficient wincon in the game.
I am unclear why you feel the need to draw a line between self-proclaimed high-end casual and cEDH. You’re exploring optimized play for prizes. Regardless of what you call it, that’s still beyond the remit of the RC.
But isn’t a card that restricts deckbuilding diversity, is an auto-include and leads to repetitive gameplay also something that the policy wishes to do something about?
Isn’t part of the policy to restrict cards that win out of nowhere and that require no deckbuilding cost, such as Coalition Victory?
Thoracle easily checks those marks in any playgroup with the minimum necessary power level to accept combos as a win condition…
I understand that the card mostly sees play in higher-powered tables, and that the RC focuses almost exclusively on mid-powered tables (I think Iona, Coalition Victory, Biorhithm and Emrakul are the only bans for low-power if memory serves me right… And well, Flash for cEDH), but Thoracle still seems to be something that the policy is heavily against. Even if it doesn’t see much mid-power play.
You answered your own question. It mostly sees play in areas that have already chosen to forge their own path. We are not getting on that treadmill, which won’t stop with Oracle.
And yet, Flash Hulk was taken out why again? If there’s always a most efficient wincon, what was wrong with it being the most efficient? Or any number of other cards on the ban list? Or is this a case of some stuff being more equal than other stuff? It always comes down to power level.
Kick out the Oracle I say.
I’d be pretty onboard with unbanning Flash per this. One of our main concerns with the Flash ban was that people would think we were trying to balance the format and we have no interest in that. If that’s the message being taken away, we might need to revisit.
Playing for prizes is exactly a good time to Rule 0 cards.
Banning Thassa’s Oracle would be moot in most cases, most events that play for prizes implemented their own local ban lists. Banning cards on format level just effects actual casual play cEDH and Hightower playgroups and the random pick up game at a shop at those levels of play.