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MTG Commander/Elder Dragon Highlander • View topic - Lion's Eye Diamond

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 Post subject: Lion's Eye Diamond
AgePosted: 2011-Feb-22 7:34 pm 
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Joined: 2011-Jan-16 5:36 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Toronto, ON
So... out of curiousity, what's the rationale that LED is banned? I mean, it's cute with Madness/Flashback cards, but really, it can't be on the level of some of the other cards that find their way on to that list... can it?

Not to stir the pot, but surely has more degenerate combos than a card that makes you pitch your hand as a *cost*. Is it problematic with Memory Jar or Magus of the Jar? Is there something I just don't know?

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 Post subject: Re: Lion's Eye Diamond
AgePosted: 2011-Feb-22 8:17 pm 
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Joined: 2009-Dec-22 7:59 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Brunswick
You ran LED for infinite mana-combos I believe. Its one of those cards that is banned because you will only run it for one reason, and that reason was to make some infinite mana loop.

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 Post subject: Re: Lion's Eye Diamond
AgePosted: 2011-Feb-22 8:24 pm 

Joined: 2010-Sep-11 12:19 pm
Age: Elder Dragon


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 Post subject: Re: Lion's Eye Diamond
AgePosted: 2011-Feb-22 8:36 pm 
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Joined: 2009-Dec-02 9:50 pm
Age: Drake
I hear a turn 1 Akroma, Angel of Wrath is pretty scary too...

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 Post subject: Re: Lion's Eye Diamond
AgePosted: 2011-Feb-22 8:56 pm 
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Joined: 2010-Dec-19 1:49 pm
Age: Dragon
Have you ever stared down a turn 1 Goblin Charblecher and then they drop down a Lion's Eye Diamond, they activate, discard their hand and then deal 20+ damage to you on turn 1?

I suggest putting yourself in that situation, it'll uh, build character, and stuff.

LED's cost can also be used to speed up dredge strategies, it tops off combos, and it gets substantially better once you factor in that you can just use it to get your general out stupidly fast.. (Turn 1 Skithiryx with haste anyone?)

I don't think it's quite 'ban-worthy', although it certainly enables some nutty, nutty things to happen very early in the game, LED is like tinker, no one is ever going to use it to be nice. Ever.


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 Post subject: Re: Lion's Eye Diamond
AgePosted: 2011-Feb-22 8:59 pm 

Joined: 2010-Sep-11 12:19 pm
Age: Elder Dragon


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 Post subject: Re: Lion's Eye Diamond
AgePosted: 2011-Feb-22 9:34 pm 

Joined: 2009-Jan-23 11:34 am
Age: Elder Dragon
One time, on the N train, I actually got up and let an old lady sit in the handicapped seat. But just that one time.

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 Post subject: Re: Lion's Eye Diamond
AgePosted: 2011-Feb-22 9:38 pm 

Joined: 2009-Oct-28 10:55 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
As Rishana implied but did not explicitly say, it allows you to have a Black Lotus worth of mana without drawback when it comes to casting your Commander. and are perfect examples of aggro generals that would be better - in fact nearly impossible to handle based on normal expectations of spot removal in the format - if they had more potential for turn 1-3 casts.


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 Post subject: Re: Lion's Eye Diamond
AgePosted: 2011-Feb-23 12:19 am 
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Joined: 2009-Jun-19 6:32 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Lappeenranta, Finland
You'd play it with or not at all. Thus, no real reason not to have it banned.

Sure, you could use the mana to cast a general, but if I remove your general after that, there's no way you're getting back into the game, so I absolutely wouldn't mind playing against someone who uses LED for that.


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 Post subject: Re: Lion's Eye Diamond
AgePosted: 2011-Feb-23 6:04 am 
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Joined: 2011-Jan-16 5:36 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Toronto, ON
Urg, I didn't think about casting your general with it. Blarg.

I had my sights set on playing crappy madness and flashback cards (or, at very worst, abusing Dralnu). Some of the other stuff didn't seem quite so bad (well, except the goblin charbelcher; Akroma and others can be dealt with).

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 Post subject: Re: Lion's Eye Diamond
AgePosted: 2011-Feb-28 10:00 am 

Joined: 2010-Jul-08 9:30 am
Age: Hatchling
Isn't Mana Crypt even stronger than LED, especially in Commander?


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 Post subject: Re: Lion's Eye Diamond
AgePosted: 2011-Mar-01 7:41 am 
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Joined: 2011-Jan-18 11:59 am
Age: Elder Dragon

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 Post subject: Re: Lion's Eye Diamond
AgePosted: 2011-Mar-01 8:29 am 
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Joined: 2009-Jun-19 6:32 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Lappeenranta, Finland
@ moraff

1) =/= .

2) LED's timing restriction (oracle text) prevents you from activating the ability when you don't have priority, so you can't crack it for mana while casting another spell. You do it either before casting a spell that's not in your hand (general from the command zone, flashback ), in response to the spell (empty your hand for and use the mana on whatever you fetch with it), or not at all. You can't use the mana to cast spells (such as Steely Resolve) from your hand.

3) You name a creature type for as it enters the battlefield (during the resolution of either the Resolve or whatever effect brought it onto the battlefield), not when you cast it.


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 Post subject: Re: Lion's Eye Diamond
AgePosted: 2011-Mar-01 3:07 pm 
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Joined: 2011-Jan-18 11:59 am
Age: Elder Dragon
My apologies for the confusion on the above cards. Once upon a time the LED worked that way. That was before the whole world had Smartphones and Oracle Text on demand though, a very long time ago, and the whole playing of table top magic in the last several years has made my "timing" a bit fuzzy on a lot of things.

Though, with the Oracle Wording change on the LED, I'll need to change my Open EDH Teeg deck now. Rather liked having a shroud Teeg on turn one, but would rather not be called a cheater.

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