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MTG Commander/Elder Dragon Highlander • View topic - The Case to BAN Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

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 Post subject: The Case to BAN Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
AgePosted: 2010-May-04 9:34 pm 

Joined: 2009-Nov-25 10:13 am
Age: Drake
Location: Toronto ON, CA
I am staring a post here to discuss the possibility of banning Emrakul, the Aeons Torn.
RoE has been out for a while now and many of us have had a chance to test them out. Emrakul, the Aeons Torn is the nastiest among them. Its annihilate 6 plus protection from color spell is almost impossible to deal with. Especially with many great board sweeper running around, we hardly have six or more creatures(or any thing) on the board, and this means Emrakul will most likely hite 6 lands. I have seem many times it is just devastating and almost impossible to come back from one hit.

I know it is a great creature and it's alot of fun to have him on your side, but on the other side it is just purely not fun.

So what do you guys say?


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 Post subject: Re: The Case to BAN Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
AgePosted: 2010-May-04 9:59 pm 
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Joined: 2009-Jul-13 6:05 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Monmouth, OR
I feel like ripping out my intestines with a fork after seeing all these ban threads and posts.

Ah fuck it. I'll just give you a rundown of cards that answer Emrakul off the top of my head so I dispel the myth that he's "almost impossible to deal with"

- ANY Wrath effect
- ANY Edict spell
- Duplicant
- Shriekmaw
- Bone Shredder
- Big Game Hunter
- Oblivion Ring
- Faceless Butcher
- Sower of Temptation
- Gilded Drake
- Helm of Possession

Note how all of these cards are excellent standalone cards, so the excuse of "but you have to dilute your deck with specific answer cards that are dead outside of stopping Emrakul!" is not valid.

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Last edited by Surging Chaos on 2010-May-04 10:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The Case to BAN Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
AgePosted: 2010-May-04 10:00 pm 
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Joined: 2008-May-28 3:42 pm
Age: Dragon
Number of times I've seen Emrakul in play in standard: 2.
Number of times I've seen Emrakul in play in EDH: 0.

Number of Wrath effects that kill Emrakul in standard: 2.
Number of Wrath effects that kill Emrakul in EDH:

There are plenty of answers to Emrakul. Either it's decently along in the game, so you someone should have an answer (Disk or something), or it's not being cast but being cheated into play, in which case there's less of an issue because there's no extra turn, or someone made a shitton of mana really early, in which case it's prolly a fluke and you shuffle up and play again.

I really don't think that a creature that costs 15 mana should be banned. Yeah, it's good. Yeah, it's undercosted (even at 15, dear gods). Sure, it dodges removal and counters. But it's still a creature. Still dies to wrath. Still needs to use the red zone to win.

If annhilator is that much of a problem, run disencentives to attack or some cheap token producers. Plenty of ways to deal with him, just gotta think outside the box a little.


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 Post subject: Re: The Case to BAN Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
AgePosted: 2010-May-04 10:42 pm 
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Joined: 2009-Jul-13 6:05 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Monmouth, OR
If anything, I would like to see cards UNBANNED rather than banned. Hopefully Metalworker finally gets unbanned this June after watching his buddies Tolarian Academy and Rofellos run around and generate wads of mana for well over a year now.

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 Post subject: Re: The Case to BAN Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
AgePosted: 2010-May-04 11:05 pm 
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Joined: 2007-Sep-10 2:51 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Rittman, OH USA
Number of games that end when Emrakul is cast turn 6 or earlier? Not all, but some.
Number of people that are now dead permanently when Emrakul starts attacking? Usually 2.

How hard is it to cast Emmy before turn 7? Not very.

Emrakul is all in when he comes down.
Anything past 6 and people are more ready for him. Even then, he is usually killing someone.
But honestly what else would you expect out of a 15/15 monster for 15? He fits this format and you don't have to break him, he just has a very commanding board presence.

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 Post subject: Re: The Case to BAN Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
AgePosted: 2010-May-04 11:30 pm 

Joined: 2009-Apr-21 3:38 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Palm Springs Area, CA
I for one am going to start playing bribery- heck even Gather Specimens- far more often.

Has the playability on Time Stop gone up?

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 Post subject: Re: The Case to BAN Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
AgePosted: 2010-May-05 12:57 am 

Joined: 2008-Aug-08 6:34 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Rouen, France
I'd just like to add the following to the list:

Child of Alara
Academy Rector & any control magic spell
Academy Rector & Journey to Nowhere, Oblivion Ring
Noble Benefactor & everyone's personal preferred removal
Reveillark & Nekrataal effects

Also, when someone plays any of the huge Eldrazi the rest of the table really have to do a Zendikar and just all in to kill or remove it. They are the biggest target anyone can paint on themselves.

And I think Emrakul is female.

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 Post subject: Re: The Case to BAN Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
AgePosted: 2010-May-05 1:52 am 
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Joined: 2009-Aug-03 12:21 pm
Age: Drake
Location: Basel, Switzerland
Don't forget good ol' Icy Manipulat0r (or Puppet Strings or Tawnos's Coffin or Aether Spellbomb or...)


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 Post subject: Re: The Case to BAN Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
AgePosted: 2010-May-05 6:25 am 
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Joined: 2009-Aug-20 7:49 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Hampshire

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 Post subject: Re: The Case to BAN Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
AgePosted: 2010-May-05 6:39 am 

Joined: 2008-Aug-08 6:34 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Rouen, France

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Current decks:
Sydri's random pile of cards with "Artifact" on them
Scarab God Zombie Horde
Sissay 5c Superfriends
Morophon Eldrazi (5C Devoid)
Grenzo's Goblins


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 Post subject: Re: The Case to BAN Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
AgePosted: 2010-May-05 7:48 am 

Joined: 2009-Jun-09 11:56 am
Age: Drake
Let's not forget one of my personal favourite cards in Ensnaring Bridge.

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 Post subject: Re: The Case to BAN Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
AgePosted: 2010-May-05 8:20 am 

Joined: 2009-Feb-04 6:50 pm
Age: Drake
Location: Grand Rapids
I did a turn 5 at an event last week. I then attacked the guy I took it from. Sure I lost Emrakul when he scooped, but at least nobody had to deal with her/it anymore.


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 Post subject: Re: The Case to BAN Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
AgePosted: 2010-May-05 8:32 am 
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Joined: 2008-May-28 3:42 pm
Age: Dragon
May I also note that the lovely spell does not counter, but instead removes it from the game on the stack.

Blue has some fantastic answers (Mindbreak Trap, Bribery, Time Stop, etc)
White has some fantastic answers (Rout, Wrath, Blazing Archon, etc)
Black has some fantastic answers (Decree of Pain, Diabolic Edict, Sadistic Sacrament, etc)
Green and Red seem to lack really good answers (I mean, sure there's Bend or Break or Whirlwind, but other than that...),

but...

Those lack of answers are made up entirely by the fact that artifacts may have the best combination of answers!
Oblivion Stone, Nevinyrral's Disk, Jester's Cap, Ensnaring Bridge, Meekstone, etc.

EDIT: Hurf durf, I kan noe spellz


Last edited by Scout on 2010-May-05 3:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The Case to BAN Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
AgePosted: 2010-May-05 9:52 am 

Joined: 2008-Nov-25 3:51 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Toronto, ON
I don't know about you guys but I have had the wonderfully terrible pleasure of facing down an Emrakul, twice in EDH (both times hardcasted). He (she?) is not fun at all. He (she?) made me go all squirmy inside. And yes, whiled there may be a lot of answers to Emrakul in the format, when no one does at least two players are pretty much dead (in game): and every subsequent turn it gets harder and for the table to answer him. Smart players who want to protect him and other Eldrazi should be running Greaves and Shield of Kaldra. I really hope you're all running Hallowed Burial.

People complain about how Sundering Titan should be banned and I think Emrakul is worse. If you deal with Titan than a max of 10 lands gets nuked. If he's not he's just a 7/10 that can be chumped. Not only is Emrakul harder to deal with but when he/she does stick around that's game. Mid to late game people have fewer Wraths in hand because they've been used up and early game off of accel he's devastating to a land base. This is from personal experience and testing.

The case for banning (for me at least) is not based on how easy it is to answer, but for me, it's the WTF factor when he hits the table. For me that's about as high as the scale goes. Cards that say "Wrath me or die in a slow death" are not healthy for the format and turn people away.

And I have never ever seen a Mindbreak Trap in EDH.

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 Post subject: Re: The Case to BAN Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
AgePosted: 2010-May-05 10:53 am 

Joined: 2009-Jan-23 11:34 am
Age: Elder Dragon


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