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MTG Commander/Elder Dragon Highlander • View topic - Kalemne, Disciple of Iroas - Voltron + Fatties - 17/10/16

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 Post subject: Kalemne, Disciple of Iroas - Voltron + Fatties - 17/10/16
AgePosted: 2015-Nov-14 6:10 am 
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Joined: 2009-Mar-31 8:25 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Zealand

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Kalemne, Disciple of Iroas


Last edited by GoodbyeWorld on 2016-Jul-12 7:45 pm, edited 14 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Iroas, God of Victory - R/W Aggro (it didn't work...)
AgePosted: 2015-Nov-14 6:46 pm 
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Joined: 2009-Mar-31 8:25 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Zealand
OK.

I've officially decided that the reason aggro doesn't work is NOT because the archetype itself is flawed (though it has issues), it's that opponents are irrational and if you attack someone early it's almost like you slept with their mom or something because they hold a grudge against you the rest of the game.

The other issue is no matter what, the early game goes too quick and while one player is irrationally hating you, player 2 and 3 have transitioned to mid-game and are ahead of you on everything.

C'est la vie I guess. I came, I saw, I tried (oh so so many times), but I did not conquer this archetype. I raise my white flag and surrender.

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Kalemne, Disciple of Iroas


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 Post subject: Re: Iroas, God of Victory - R/W Aggro (it didn't work...)
AgePosted: 2015-Nov-14 11:32 pm 

Joined: 2013-Jan-07 1:45 am
Age: Dragon

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Kothophed (mono black control, ETB abuse)
Teferi, Temporal Archmage (blue pillowfort superfriends)
Glint-Eye Nephilim (combat tricks, card draw, & creature pump)
Oloro Upkeep Tribal (enchantment-based control)
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 Post subject: Re: Iroas, God of Victory - R/W Aggro (it didn't work...)
AgePosted: 2015-Nov-15 12:08 am 
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Joined: 2012-Nov-27 4:39 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Midgard
I suggest taking a look into either my A&C Enchantments or Antis' THIS IS AKROS! decks. They both have pretty good game, though they go in different directions with . I was just at GP Atlanta, and my Anax and Cymede deck topdecked to victory against , , , and the new Daxos decks on the back--literally--of , , , , and , with some late game lock-down via (the Daxos deck was enchantment-based too and was sandbagging some recursion) and .

My deck is a little more on the casual side though, while Antis' deck is a step above that. It is much more spell-based, and I feel like I've seen it take down multiple opponents in a single game.

People do sometimes have an irrational fear for R/W Aggro in the early game, so give them a reason to be afraid: A&C coming at you turn 4 enchanted with and d for 16 general damage.


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 Post subject: Re: Iroas, God of Victory - R/W Aggro (it didn't work...)
AgePosted: 2015-Nov-15 5:21 am 
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Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Zealand

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 Post subject: Re: Kalemne, Disciple of Iroas - R/W Voltron/Aggro
AgePosted: 2015-Nov-15 8:50 pm 
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Location: New Zealand
Changed to a Kalemne (previously Iroas) list in case anyone was wondering...

If this doesn't work, I'll try Anya and if that doesn't work, I'll give up on R/W forever haha.

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Kalemne, Disciple of Iroas


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 Post subject: Re: Kalemne, Disciple of Iroas - R/W Voltron/Aggro
AgePosted: 2015-Nov-16 12:56 am 

Joined: 2013-Jan-07 1:45 am
Age: Dragon
But, why no ? ? ? ?

I always found stuff like was a little weak. I mean, even if I have 10 equipment, I got maybe 1 card draw off him, and then it's basically not worth using. I mean, it's 2/2 bear that does basically nothing. Much better options would be or , or, really, any one of a number of small white creatures that have HUGE effects on the board.

Other suggestions: , , .

IDK. I want this archetype to work, but I think it's pretty hard. I'm genuinely interested to hear about your experiences with the different builds. So keep it coming! :)

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Decklists:
Kothophed (mono black control, ETB abuse)
Teferi, Temporal Archmage (blue pillowfort superfriends)
Glint-Eye Nephilim (combat tricks, card draw, & creature pump)
Oloro Upkeep Tribal (enchantment-based control)
and more:Decklists


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 Post subject: Re: Kalemne, Disciple of Iroas - R/W Voltron/Aggro
AgePosted: 2015-Nov-16 1:53 am 

Joined: 2008-Nov-30 12:36 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
I totally disagree on Puresteel Palladin. He was always excellent in my various iterations of "Boros Equipment Aggro Voltron Doublestrike Tribal". He costs TWO mana. You only need to draw a couple of cards before he has paid for himself, and that zero equip things should not be underrated.

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 Post subject: Re: Kalemne, Disciple of Iroas - R/W Voltron/Aggro
AgePosted: 2015-Nov-16 4:05 am 
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Joined: 2009-Mar-31 8:25 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Zealand
Ya, it's actually the 0 equip that I am more attracted to then I am the draw. If he cantrips once great, twice, fantastic.

No because it skews the deck to run more instants, which I don't think I can do properly.

could go in for sure. Need to find a cut. Allows you to build up experience counters and keep mana open for etc.

I say no because the goal is Commander damage. Equipping this to Kalemne is sorta not needed and equipping it to everyone else is always sorta underwhelming.

I'm not sure is better then my current picks. The trample is nice, and so is the haste, but the lack of a power buff hurts.

Somehow got cut, so gotta find room and fix that immediately (I'll cut Archon of Justice for now).

Can't playtest until 2015 is released on MTGO t.t

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Kalemne, Disciple of Iroas


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 Post subject: Re: Kalemne, Disciple of Iroas - R/W Voltron/Aggro
AgePosted: 2015-Nov-16 5:50 am 

Joined: 2008-Nov-30 12:36 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
I have to say, I think Sunforger is worth another look. I managed to squeeze in a Sunforger package in my list, and my SF package looked VERY similar to the Instants you are already running.

I typically only ran 10 or 11 targets, but stuff like Swords, Boros Charm, etc were well worth it. In fact, I think the only things missing are Wild Ricochet, and Orim's Thunder. I would also give some thought to Comeuppance, as that can be a total blowout at times. I've also tried out Oblation from time to time. It's never terrible, but never felt essential either.

But the real key to making Sunforger work was actually Mistveil Plains. Blown your best SF target already? Recycle it and keep going. I won plenty of games off being able to cast the same Path or Swords over and over, and if they tried to blow up the hammer itself, I'd just boros charm until they ran out of answers.

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 Post subject: Re: Kalemne, Disciple of Iroas - R/W Voltron/Aggro
AgePosted: 2015-Nov-16 7:03 am 
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Joined: 2009-Mar-31 8:25 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Zealand
Okay, as soon as I can find a cut for I'll give it a try.

I'm hoping this list will be fast enough that Sunforger shenanigans aren't necessary, but agree it could give the list some needed mid and late game.

Makes me want to add and in though.

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Kalemne, Disciple of Iroas


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 Post subject: Re: Kalemne, Disciple of Iroas - R/W Voltron/Aggro
AgePosted: 2015-Nov-16 7:17 am 

Joined: 2013-Jan-07 1:45 am
Age: Dragon

_________________
Decklists:
Kothophed (mono black control, ETB abuse)
Teferi, Temporal Archmage (blue pillowfort superfriends)
Glint-Eye Nephilim (combat tricks, card draw, & creature pump)
Oloro Upkeep Tribal (enchantment-based control)
and more:Decklists


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 Post subject: Re: Kalemne, Disciple of Iroas - R/W Voltron/Aggro
AgePosted: 2015-Nov-16 7:34 am 
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Joined: 2009-Mar-31 8:25 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Zealand
I think would be the logical cut then, since I can now tutor for , and .

That's 8 instants, which I guess is enough without making some real hard cuts and testing those >5 drops first.

What do you guys think of ?

Also keen to hear if people think the whole , , package is worth it? If so, should I add ?

Moxes can be real crappy top decks when you don't have a tonne of draw. I guess that's the risk for the added chance of a turn two Kalemne, turn 3 swing for 6+ Commander damage.

EDIT: I should probably cut two basics for and . Do I then run ?

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Kalemne, Disciple of Iroas


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 Post subject: Re: Kalemne, Disciple of Iroas - R/W Voltron/Aggro
AgePosted: 2015-Nov-16 8:18 am 

Joined: 2013-Jan-07 1:45 am
Age: Dragon
Hmm, well, I can answer some of these questions.

I always like + in white (or white/red) decks cause there's so few draw options. I've never gone so far as to try , tho. has a lot of synergy with . I'd lean toward using that one. (And also synergy with , which I also like in this kind of build cause you get a lot of repeated use out of and , and of course and . And you have BOTH and to tutor for good lands. Plus is good with , which is undoubtedly your best card draw in these colors.) I think you could also run . , maybe? I dunno. I wouldn't worry about moxes being bad topdecks, cause they're no worse topdecks than lands, and *sort of* directly take their place. But, this kind of card-disadvantage ramp actually works better if you have a lot of card draw, rather than less...

(non-equipment) Card draw suggestions: , , , /, . Speaking of card draw and ramp, I'm pretty sure any deck with wants . Cause, awesome.

I think you want some way of getting back dead artifacts. I dunno, but I *think* the best way is . Seems better than , and also better than my previous favorite, . I never tried , but, it sure *seems* expensive.

, , (and ) all seem really good with , which is probably worth using.

I think you may be going a little crazy on the non-basics. My gut feeling is both and won't be worth it.

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Decklists:
Kothophed (mono black control, ETB abuse)
Teferi, Temporal Archmage (blue pillowfort superfriends)
Glint-Eye Nephilim (combat tricks, card draw, & creature pump)
Oloro Upkeep Tribal (enchantment-based control)
and more:Decklists


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 Post subject: Re: Kalemne, Disciple of Iroas - R/W Voltron/Aggro
AgePosted: 2015-Nov-16 8:26 am 

Joined: 2011-Aug-18 3:35 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
The only mox I would consider is the opal. You'll already be running a fair amount of artifacts and it has no card disadvantage associated with it. I would replace basics with the three artifact lands to boost metalcraft counts in that case though.

Scroll Rack/Land Tax is a wicked combo when assembled but you'll likely quickly get to the point where opponents have fewer lands than you do which will turn off the combo and then Rack is going to be subpar in a deck without strong draw AND shuffles. I'd probably just stick with Land Tax or maybe even .

I would include and a wheel or two though. The mask and gloves seem a bit win-more as they'll never draw you a card unless you can connect and if you can connect, the game should soon be over. Try . Jitte is definitely a strong card in this... Mine is going into Karlov though as it's just as bad there where the "weakest" mode becomes the strongest.

I would include instead of Fervor. There are plenty of haste sources in the deck already but that makes her 10 damage straight off. Throw in a and you could be swinging for 16 general damage on turn 3 with sol ring. (T1 sol ring blade) T2 battledriver T3 Kalemne with a mana open for if you want to make it a game over nut draw...


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