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MTG Commander/Elder Dragon Highlander • View topic - Yet Another Control Child

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 Post subject: Yet Another Control Child
AgePosted: 2013-Jul-01 10:45 am 
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Joined: 2011-Nov-16 1:14 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Prague, Heart of Europe
Hi guys!

I'd like to share my CoA list, first and foremost for fun, secondly because I always have a few more cards I want to try, but have trouble deciding what to cut, so I thought I'd ask around for opinions.

The main focus is ETB/death-trigger creatures, reusing them (mostly via reanimation) and nibbling at my opponents with them until something big happens, all the while controlling the board with a lot of nukes in variety of flavors. This deck doesn't actually play the Child itself that often, simply because it's not needed and almost never attacks with it. It's more of a failsafe for when everything else fails. Most wins are the result of a big beater swooping on the by then weared-down opponent, Yosei lock or Last Stand + Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth (don't laugh-it works :twisted: ).

I make it a point NOT to use any kind of "I win" infinite combo, like Mike-Trike or Kiki-whatever.

Child of Alara

Ramp:







(THE best card of the deck)

Nukes:











(don't leave home without it!)



Recursion:











Card drawing:








(sac outlet, IMO a very underrated card)

Tutors:


(sac outlet)





(sac outlet)




Multitask:



(my pet card, I have so much fun with this one :D )


Other:










Lands:








All 6 duals without red
All 6 fetchlands without red
All 6 shocklands without red + Stomping Ground
...and in true singleton spirit: 1 of each basic land

Rigth now, I want to include , , and .

Thanks in advance!


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 Post subject: Re: Yet Another Control Child
AgePosted: 2013-Jul-03 7:51 am 
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Joined: 2011-Feb-07 3:37 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Danbury, CT

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 Post subject: Re: Yet Another Control Child
AgePosted: 2013-Jul-03 8:17 am 
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Joined: 2008-Aug-15 9:31 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
That's a lot of creature hate. Especially with "nuke the board" commander. Does anyone like playing against the deck or is it a case of, "I'm used to being teamed up on, so I'll build a deck that can compete with that,"? Either way, blow up everything get's pretty tiresome. If there was ever an argument for your meta to shift and come right back at you Armageddon or Ruination, it's a "good stuff" 5c deck with that many "kill everything" cards on top of a "kill everything" general.

Survival without Squee? 5 color Survival was my original deck back when I started playing in '07. I've played Survival a lot. I've tried it without Squee and was consistently unimpressed. If you're going to play Skullclamp, Read the Runes, and Birthing Chamber alongside SotF, there's basically no excuse for not including Squee.

Where's the Solemn Simulacrum? I hear he likes ramping and dying. In fact, why play cards like Arbor Elf and Birds of Paradise over cards like Solemn and Farhaven Elf? The latter are much better with "blow up everything" cards and have better synergy with Skullclamp.


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 Post subject: Re: Yet Another Control Child
AgePosted: 2013-Jul-09 10:13 am 
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Joined: 2011-Nov-16 1:14 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Prague, Heart of Europe


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 Post subject: Re: Yet Another Control Child
AgePosted: 2013-Jul-09 12:25 pm 
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Joined: 2012-Feb-07 4:15 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Cards I don't like:
: I find that these types of cards don't do too well in EDH. I mean, sure they're an answer to tokens, but even then I can easily think of more and better ones. Not to mention that if your opponent has a nice big dragon army, this thing just goes poop.
: Same deal, although this one is a LOT better.
: Something tells me or something of that nature would be far better.


Cards I think you'd enjoy:
!!!: With a total of 13 ETB creatures in your deck, this thing is perfect.
: You said no infinite combo, but Dark Mike by himself is fine, and works really well with your deck.
: It's what would happen if Wood Elves decided to go political.
: ALL THE MANA! IT ROCKS (pun intended).


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 Post subject: Re: Yet Another Control Child
AgePosted: 2013-Jul-09 9:58 pm 
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Joined: 2011-Nov-16 1:14 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Prague, Heart of Europe
DANGER! INCOMING: WALL OF TEXT! DANGER!

Constructive! :) Thanks!

I must say, I wouldn't play if not for one card - . Here's the thing: as I said, one of the biggest strengths of the deck is its resilience. And that comes mostly from the number of options and responses. I play 5 black tutoring effects plus and a whole ensemble of restricted ones. , , , ... If you take a closer look, you'll see that the deck is built in such a way those cards can be as broad as possible.

Just for creature removal, I have (Sorcery), (Enchantment), Explosives (Artifact w/cost <= 1), (Creature), among others.
Recursion? (Sorcery), (Enchantment), (Creature)...
Sac outlet? , , , , ...
allows to resurrect any creature in any graveyard. As does for and both of these for . can find a creature tutor/sac outlet ().
You get the idea.

I draw Trinket -> I usually search for the Top or of course, but if need be, I can also find a sac outlet for Yosei (TM -> -> ), or, in that same line, protect myself with .

Explosives can't kill a dragon army? Yeah, neither can . Or . That's why I play about 8 other cards that can, including my general :D

And BTW my experience strongly disagrees with you on the Wave vs. comparison. Angel is fine, I've played against it and it was tough, but it is in no way better for creature removal than the Wave. I generally try to stay away from creatures that do nothing if they are killed before you can untap because surprise, that happens a lot. Wave is cheaper, as an enchantment it's more resilient (which is the goal for this kind of effect) and it can be activated at will (the Angel can too, sure, but you need other cards to do that, like fetchlands). If anything, I'd like to add to the deck, but I certainy won't cut the Wave for it.

Funny thing - I've actually played Navigator at one point, but it got cut. It wasn't bad per se, just worse than other cards that wanted to be in. When I want to reuse the ETB trigger of something already in play, is cheaper and arguably more reliable, plus it can duplicate death triggers as well (it can set off the Child, for exmple).
Didn't try Dark Mike yet, but I'm inclined to compare it with by functionality. And IMO, Mike loses that one.
I assume, you mean ? If so, then A) puts the land into play and B) can find duals in a 5-color deck.
looks good, but again - I already have Wood Elves, which can be much more easily reused. I often joke it's the best card in the deck, but as it turns out, it's not such an exaggeration. It's not a threat, nor an answer but you can't do either of those things without proper mana.


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 Post subject: Re: Yet Another Control Child
AgePosted: 2013-Jul-10 1:27 am 
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Joined: 2012-Feb-07 4:15 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
I see your points. BTW, I meant , not the Elder (although he is a great card)


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 Post subject: Re: Yet Another Control Child
AgePosted: 2013-Jul-10 6:10 am 
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Joined: 2011-Nov-16 1:14 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Prague, Heart of Europe


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 Post subject: Re: Yet Another Control Child
AgePosted: 2013-Jul-10 7:35 am 
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Joined: 2008-Aug-15 9:31 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Do you seriously only run 31 land? Needs all ten fetch and a City of Brass. Probably Exotic Orchard too. And a Thespian Stage.


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 Post subject: Re: Yet Another Control Child
AgePosted: 2013-Jul-10 9:08 am 
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Joined: 2011-Nov-16 1:14 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Prague, Heart of Europe


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 Post subject: Re: Yet Another Control Child
AgePosted: 2013-Jul-11 3:02 am 
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Joined: 2008-Aug-15 9:31 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
It doesn't matter if red is scarce when choosing to run fetches. Let's assume you pretty much never search for red duals. Each one of those fetches still basically says, "Search your library for a land of the color of your choice plus one of three other random useful colors." That's gold. I have over 40 fetches and I use literally every single one. I can't even say the same for my original duals. Fetches also accidentally are good against Back to Basics, which I'll get to below.

While we're on the subject of duals, add Krosan Verge. It's worth it to play "Enter the Battlefield tapped" lands if they accelerate you in the long run like this card and Vesuva/Thespian Stage targeting Cabal Coffers.

Don't play a basic mountain. Your commitment to red looks pretty similar to mine in my two 5c decks. You don't need it often enough to warrant ever drawing it and wishing it added 2+ colors, especially when it's in the same hand as a colorless producer like High Market (which is mandatory in Child).

You might not need any basics or Sakura-Tribe Elder at all. I've always found that it's not worth it to live in fear of some anti-social hose card like Back to Basics. It hurts your deck more to play additional non-multi-color lands than it helps to have a small chance to play around B2B. I'd play the red duals instead, so you incidentally draw your red instead of having to burn a fetch looking for it or searching up a basic mountain. That's totally a meta call though. If everyone runs B2B for your deck, I guess you have to adjust.

You should cut the Strip Mine. Cannibal lands are worth it in decks to whom color isn't at such a premium. But between Cabal Coffers, Thespian Stage, High Market, and Phyrexian Tower, you're going to get color screwed playing a 5 color deck. You just will. Those lands are more or less "worth it" though. The Strip Mine can be substituted by other cards in your spell slots.

I'd go with the following if you have access to all of them

10 fetch
10 dual
6 shock (no red)
Krosan Verge
Command Tower
Reflecting Pool
City of Brass
Exotic Orchard (if your meta features at least 3 of your 4 main colors)
Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Cabal Coffers
Vesuva
Thespian Stage
Phyrexian Tower
High Market


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 Post subject: Re: Yet Another Control Child
AgePosted: 2013-Jul-12 11:08 pm 
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Joined: 2011-Nov-16 1:14 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Prague, Heart of Europe
Thanks for the tips, Trevor.

I defend on the same grounds as & co. I want to have the option to turn or or any tutor for that matter into land destruction, if need be. I'm not the kind of guy to play , but some lands just have to go. I believe this way of "cross tutoring" or what should I call it is an essential part of the deck's successes.

While it may not look that way from the list, this manabase repeatedly proves to be working well. Amount and color of mana seldom is an issue in my games. And I've recovered from Geddons and whatnot quite a few times as well. With that stability, I'm willing to keep the basics in, if it makes the deck sturdier against cards I would otherwise lose to (and which my friends DO play).


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