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MTG Commander/Elder Dragon Highlander • View topic - What to ban/unban next?

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 Post subject: Re: What to ban/unban next?
AgePosted: 2012-Sep-23 12:16 pm 
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Joined: 2012-Feb-07 4:15 pm
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 Post subject: Re: What to ban/unban next?
AgePosted: 2012-Sep-24 12:07 am 

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 Post subject: Re: What to ban/unban next?
AgePosted: 2012-Sep-24 12:41 am 
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Joined: 2011-Aug-13 2:49 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
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 Post subject: Re: What to ban/unban next?
AgePosted: 2012-Sep-24 12:49 am 
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 Post subject: Re: What to ban/unban next?
AgePosted: 2012-Sep-24 12:54 am 
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 Post subject: Re: What to ban/unban next?
AgePosted: 2012-Sep-24 1:10 am 

Joined: 2009-Feb-09 4:00 pm
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Painter's Servant is fine. The case with Iona is no worse than any of a number of other two- or three-card combos that win the game, and it actually has cool uses outside of that. I don't buy, "But it's only a combo card," because in that case, what are Palinchron, Exsanguinate, Mind Over Matter, Animar, Tendrils of Agony, Niv-Mizzet, Kiki-Jiki, and so on still doing loose in the format?


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 Post subject: Re: What to ban/unban next?
AgePosted: 2012-Sep-24 1:39 am 
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Age: Elder Dragon

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Current Commander Decks:
Alesha, She who Smiles at Death.....Atraxa, Praetors' Voice.....Eight-and-a-Half-Tails.....Gonti, Lord of Luxury.....Karametra, God of Harvests.....Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker.....Kozilek, the Great Distortion.....Prime Speaker Zegana.....Rubinia Soulsinger.....Thrasios, Triton Hero + Vial Smasher the Fierce

My general commander philosophy: Using your opponent's degenerate cards against them is far more satisfying than playing degenerate cards yourself.


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 Post subject: Re: What to ban/unban next?
AgePosted: 2012-Sep-24 1:51 am 
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So... next card to go on the list IMO.... and as a commander.

I'm not feeling 100% well at the moment, so Ill save my reasoning why for later when I'm not on "the good stuff" but I will say this, Deadeye Navigator's unfair uses are up there with Primetime & Co, while every time Gaddock Teeg enters the battlefield it turns into a hostile play environment, with who can kill Gaddock Teeg... and who Gaddock Teeg is friends with.

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 Post subject: Re: What to ban/unban next?
AgePosted: 2012-Sep-24 2:00 am 

Joined: 2008-Sep-21 11:51 am
Age: Elder Dragon
lol. teeg as a general banned ? Seriously ? I mean I could see zur, arcum, azami, azuza way before teeg.

Using teeg as a general gets you rolled out of the game fairly fast usually but he's not a game breaker. I mean look at the other banned generals.
Erayo - fliped to break the game
Braids - early lock out of the game
Rofy - fast mana for the early boken game
Koko - will likely be taken off the list ...

Teeg locks out some removal, and ?


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 Post subject: Re: What to ban/unban next?
AgePosted: 2012-Sep-24 2:13 am 

Joined: 2011-Sep-30 6:08 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Every card has innocent uses. If PS in particular were unbanned I wouldn't mind, but I've never been under the full Iona Figure-four Leglock.

I'm also not sure I buy that there is this line between "synergy" and "combo." I didn't play competitively during "combo winter," but Pros-Bloom - probably the most famous combo deck of all time - wasn't infinite. It wasn't even close. It was just big enough.

You say Ulasht + Cathar's Crusade is "synergy?" Sure. It's synergy that will kill the whole table in one turn if left unanswered. Sounds a lot like the synergy between Squirrel Nest and Earthcraft.

What if I spend five turns laying out synergistic pieces and drawing cards, and suddenly go infinite when the last piece falls into place? What if the combo involves attacking with creatures? I worked a lot harder for that combo win than many people do to accomplish their "ramp to Eldrazi" strategies. Would that feel unfair to lose to?

What I'm getting at is that combos have gotten a bad rap they don't deserve. As a result, you can see yourselves trying to manipulate the definition so that combos are only the unfair things, but the equally game-ending two card effects that feel less unfair are somehow just good synergies.

What this suggests is that the problem isn't the combo itself. The problem is when players aggressively tutor for combo pieces (especially ones that lack synergy with the rest of their decks) to win the game out of nowhere without giving anyone a chance to interact or play. In my experience, that's when people feel cheated.

The real problem though is not combos, but dedicated combo decks. And the thing that makes combo decks possible isn't actually the combos themselves. It's tutors. If you think you hate combos, you should probably actually hate tutors. Tutors ruin games. Tutors screw up the format for people who want to "play fair." Tutors are at the heart of basically every cutthroat d-bag strategy out there, combo or otherwise.

If you wanted to get serious about "fixing" this format, you would start by banning every tutor for anything other than basic lands (probably Farseek and friends are fine as well). That would immediately force every combo deck to assemble its combos in a natural, interactive fashion. And a combo you can interact with is not a busted, degenerate thing. It's just a threat you have to deal with.

tl;dr: Combos are actually fine. Tutors are the real BS. Ban Survival of the Fittest.


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 Post subject: Re: What to ban/unban next?
AgePosted: 2012-Sep-24 2:49 am 
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Age: Elder Dragon

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Current Commander Decks:
Alesha, She who Smiles at Death.....Atraxa, Praetors' Voice.....Eight-and-a-Half-Tails.....Gonti, Lord of Luxury.....Karametra, God of Harvests.....Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker.....Kozilek, the Great Distortion.....Prime Speaker Zegana.....Rubinia Soulsinger.....Thrasios, Triton Hero + Vial Smasher the Fierce

My general commander philosophy: Using your opponent's degenerate cards against them is far more satisfying than playing degenerate cards yourself.


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 Post subject: Re: What to ban/unban next?
AgePosted: 2012-Sep-24 4:27 am 

Joined: 2009-May-05 9:45 pm
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Location: Acworth, GA

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 Post subject: Re: What to ban/unban next?
AgePosted: 2012-Sep-24 5:10 am 

Joined: 2009-Feb-09 4:00 pm
Age: Elder Dragon


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 Post subject: Re: What to ban/unban next?
AgePosted: 2012-Sep-24 7:21 am 
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Joined: 2010-Mar-12 3:20 pm
Age: Elder Dragon

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Current Commander Decks:
Alesha, She who Smiles at Death.....Atraxa, Praetors' Voice.....Eight-and-a-Half-Tails.....Gonti, Lord of Luxury.....Karametra, God of Harvests.....Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker.....Kozilek, the Great Distortion.....Prime Speaker Zegana.....Rubinia Soulsinger.....Thrasios, Triton Hero + Vial Smasher the Fierce

My general commander philosophy: Using your opponent's degenerate cards against them is far more satisfying than playing degenerate cards yourself.


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 Post subject: Re: What to ban/unban next?
AgePosted: 2012-Sep-24 8:11 am 

Joined: 2011-Apr-28 9:58 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Damidhol, Tuhel
Ban . Such horrid art, and all it ever does is attack for two...until it dies. Forever. It was once voted the most hated card in Magic, and I want to see it gone...forever.

I'd also like to see Iona and Time Stretch banned, and Yawgmoth's Will should probably get axed too, even though I'm as guilty of abusing it as any teen pimp. Ban Jhoira as a general.

As for unbanning...I say unban Chaos Orb, but with a catch: if you're gonna use it, you MUST cut it into tiny, tiny pieces before throwing it on the table. No proxies allowed. Actually, I wouldn't mind seeing Black Lotus used this way, too...

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