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MTG Commander/Elder Dragon Highlander • View topic - What to ban/unban next?

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 Post subject: What to ban/unban next?
AgePosted: 2012-Sep-22 1:08 am 
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Joined: 2012-Feb-07 4:15 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
The quarter just came up, and Kokusho can join the army as long as he doesn't lead it, while Primeval Titan and Worldfire got the boot. Now it's time for us EDH players to talk about what cards we want to get off/on next quarter!

(note: I will ignore and look down upon those who ask for the unbanning of PT or banning of Koko. The RC had their reasons for this, and they will see if they've been wrong about either.)

CARDS TO COME OFF:

1. : Painter's Servant gives more good then it takes away. It works negatively with color hosers (commonly seen as dick cards), (also considered a dick card), and Grindstone (which is unplayable otherwise and isn't even as sure victory). However, legit awesome cards it helps include all ten minor guild leaders, the five Invasion Dragons (now that I think about it, pretty much every card from Invasion), and a bunch of Timmy EDH cards like . Essentially, it helps dick cards be more dickish, and helps non-dick cards be awesome.

2. : I get that the wins it accomplishes are cheesy and dumb. But, it can be used legit to as great of an extent. It, in my opinion, is no worse than T&N, Defense of the Heart, or Survival. With the exception of the idiots running it in their combo decks, Protean Hulk is the definetely in the spirit of EDH.

Cards to put on: I have none. I definetely am a huge fan of the "small banlist" philosophy.


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 Post subject: Re: What to ban/unban next?
AgePosted: 2012-Sep-22 1:52 am 
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Joined: 2012-Sep-21 2:11 am
Age: Wyvern
I find it a little offensive you refer to combo players as "idiots", especially when Protean Hulk is nothing but a combo card. Even without running and it's a card that demands being combo'd with other cards like , and a deck full of nasty creatures. Granted, I'd love to see it unbanned, but only so I could abuse the crap out of it.


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 Post subject: Re: What to ban/unban next?
AgePosted: 2012-Sep-22 2:26 am 
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Joined: 2012-Feb-07 4:15 pm
Age: Elder Dragon


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 Post subject: Re: What to ban/unban next?
AgePosted: 2012-Sep-22 3:09 am 
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Joined: 2012-Sep-16 3:17 am
Age: Elder Dragon


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 Post subject: Re: What to ban/unban next?
AgePosted: 2012-Sep-22 5:11 am 

Joined: 2012-Sep-22 3:26 am
Age: Hatchling
Ban Tidespout Tyrant. I have never seen him played without doing something ridiculously broken. Infinite mana, infinite storm, infinite bounce and ETB effects. It's just incredibly dumb. To the point where I've seen more people making broken combo decks based around him than anything else.

Ban Mind Over Matter. Similar thing to Tidespout Tyrant, just combos too easily to well. It's just a degenerate card that says "I am going to do broken shit and win now". Combined with things like temple bell, Niv Mizzet, and Azami it is just incredibly easy to ramp and combo out with it.

I feel both these cards are valid bans under the same reasoning Staff of Domination was banned.


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 Post subject: Re: What to ban/unban next?
AgePosted: 2012-Sep-22 7:23 am 

Joined: 2009-Apr-21 3:38 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Palm Springs Area, CA
I can't think of anything that is completely wrecking meta games.

I think it interesting to see what players as a whole will do if Hulk is unbanned, but given the level of irresponsibility shown so far with cards like Staff and Primeval Titan I doubt things would work out well.

And definitely painters servant. So many neat things I could do that aren't completely borked, its a damned shame.

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 Post subject: Re: What to ban/unban next?
AgePosted: 2012-Sep-22 8:20 am 

Joined: 2012-Mar-31 11:52 am
Age: Elder Dragon
I would like to see Protean Hulk come off the list, but my hunch is that it would just go in every W/G/x goodstuff deck as yet another way to combo out with ReviSaffiGuide.


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 Post subject: Re: What to ban/unban next?
AgePosted: 2012-Sep-22 8:27 am 

Joined: 2009-Oct-28 10:55 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
needs to stay banned.

Like , it offers too much potential power. The problem with a card like this is that "fair use", while a noble goal, is not a practical expectation.

There will be players trying to break it from the get-go. Those can be ignored. What can't be ignored is the number of people who find it transforming their decks into antisocial combo piles.

It starts innocently enough, but then someone suggests to the player some really strong synergies and they start down a road that doesn't end until they've passed acceptable use levels.

I can guarantee there are/were players who grabbed Forests and s etc. with their . Those same players were helped into things like /, /, , etc. Then they started to play etc. and before long they'd made a streamlined deck, and their metagame was also forced to change similarly.

If anything, should be considered for a ban along the same lines. It's a big splashy spell that seems like it should be in spirit of the format, but it becomes over time something used primarily for degenerate combo.


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 Post subject: Re: What to ban/unban next?
AgePosted: 2012-Sep-22 8:37 am 

Joined: 2009-Feb-09 4:00 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
There are already plenty of ways to combo off in this format without Hulk for those inclined to do that. Adding one more by removing Hulk from the list is probably not going to hurt the format too much.

Similarly, I'd love to see Servant unbanned, mostly because then it would give me some incentive to play Teysa again.

EDIT: @Spekter: the same things could be said of Kokusho, which just came off.


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 Post subject: Re: What to ban/unban next?
AgePosted: 2012-Sep-22 8:44 am 

Joined: 2009-Oct-28 10:55 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Eh. I don't think Kokusho does much. I really don't think he's anywhere near the power level or warp level of Primeval Titan. I could be underestimating him though.

What does Kokusho do, really, other than gain you life? You need to build strongly for sacrifice and reanimator to push him into the territory of doing real damage, but every single playable graveyard hate card makes him worthless.

Prime Time didn't need to risk the vulnerability of graveyard tricks to be abused. You could blink him, bounce him, or simply keep him alive to continue to get triggers (each of which had more value than Kokusho's trigger individually, IMO).

Kokusho is worthless without the graveyard, and the graveyard is easily attacked at instant speed.

Edit: I am NOT operating under the delusion that effects like and are effective against Kokusho; I understand how sacrifice outlets work. However, there is no way you can reanimate a creature without offering a window for responses. Further, black requires pairing up with another color or using pretty inefficient colorless answers in order to answer the extremely efficient artifact and enchantment graveyard hate. I has nothing other than to answer the Instant stuff.


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 Post subject: Re: What to ban/unban next?
AgePosted: 2012-Sep-22 9:48 am 

Joined: 2009-Feb-09 4:00 pm
Age: Elder Dragon


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 Post subject: Re: What to ban/unban next?
AgePosted: 2012-Sep-22 10:08 am 

Joined: 2012-Mar-31 11:52 am
Age: Elder Dragon


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 Post subject: Re: What to ban/unban next?
AgePosted: 2012-Sep-22 10:08 am 

Joined: 2009-Oct-28 10:55 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Understandable enough.

I am talking more about fair use cases, though. , like , can be a problem with a single trigger - needs to be spammed to be a killer.

I'm sorry your opponents are awful. and are played regularly in my metagame, so and are played in every possible deck. The recent printing of makes it much more available and appealing.

Urge your playgroup to go up to 2-3 token GYH cards at least.

Chances are good that Kokusho will find himself back on the list some months down the road. But since people have been asking to test it again in the new, post-Commander metagame, it makes sense to see if it's safe by now.


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 Post subject: Re: What to ban/unban next?
AgePosted: 2012-Sep-22 11:15 am 

Joined: 2012-Sep-22 3:26 am
Age: Hatchling
Just out of curiosity was Prime Titan really that degenerate in most peoples play groups? He just didn't seem nearly as broken as the average U shell combo or 5 color combo decks I used to see when we tried having a competitive league. Even more-so when playing casually I've never seen him be that big of a problem or do anything out of the ordinary that a strong artifact package couldn't do already. I could see it being as equally broken as so many other cards in the format if you ramped into him on turn 2 or 3. Even then it just doesn't sound as degenerate or obnoxious to me from what I've seen of "degenerate combo EDH".


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 Post subject: Re: What to ban/unban next?
AgePosted: 2012-Sep-22 11:46 am 

Joined: 2012-Mar-31 11:52 am
Age: Elder Dragon


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