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MTG Commander/Elder Dragon Highlander • View topic - Scion of the BUr-rokenness

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 Post subject: Scion of the BUr-rokenness
AgePosted: 2011-Dec-06 6:45 am 
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Joined: 2011-Dec-06 5:57 am
Age: Drake
I recently came back to the game after not playing for over 6 years and immediately fell for the Elder Dragon Highlander format (Still have my mono black asian highlander deck from back in the days.) Here's my Scion of the Ur-Dragon list:

Commander:


Dragons:










Other creatures:









Planeswalkers:



Artifacts:












Enchantments:







Instants:







Sorceries:




















Lands:





























2
2
2
2


Sideboard:











The mana base is a bit clunky at times and the deck can be a bit slow 1 vs 1 but overall it's a lot of fun to play and I win my fair share of games among my playgroup. I'm considering cutting in favor of (I hate the disk coming into play tapped) but I'm not sure if I can risk playing only 1 sweeper. Maybe I need something like , or because my manabase doesn't support white sweepers.

Any suggestions for improvement are welcome :)

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 Post subject: Re: Scion of the BUr-rokenness
AgePosted: 2011-Dec-06 9:16 pm 
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Joined: 2011-Jan-16 5:36 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Toronto, ON
Just out of the gate, cards typical to Scion that are absent from your list are , , and . I think their inclusion is pretty self explanatory, Karrthus is meant to be used with the other two, obviously.

may be met with frowns; the sideboards are an optional rule. Be sure to check with the people you're playing with before hand.

On the manabase front, it looks mostly good, but I question the inclusion of all the lands that tap for colourless; Sunhome, Academy Ruins and others are pretty baller, but the deck is pretty colour intensive.

Other than that, it looks pretty solid. I personally like to include more value generating creatures like and similar, but that's personal preference.

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 Post subject: Re: Scion of the BUr-rokenness
AgePosted: 2011-Dec-13 2:47 pm 

Joined: 2009-Aug-14 12:18 pm
Age: Drake
Interesting trick with (now a Dragon, see the Knights vs. Dragons printing): Activate the Scion twice, let the first activation resolve finding the Henge Guardian, activate the trample, and then let the second Scion activation resolve to find your Teneb, or whatever. Then it will still have trample! The same trick works with 's firebreathing, for when you don't have enough mana but have plenty of life. I also like , , , and as Dragons.

I find that Bladewing the Risen is great once you get him out, and he likes , , and a lot, which help against removal if you need them.

I also really like or , as these let you re-use the same search targets over and over if you want to.

Finally, it's a shame not to play in any five-color deck. It turns all of your lands into Command Towers!

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 Post subject: Re: Scion of the BUr-rokenness
AgePosted: 2011-Dec-13 4:19 pm 

Joined: 2009-Jun-05 7:30 am
Age: Elder Dragon
I play a Scion deck a fair amount and can whole heartedly recommend the Legacy Weapon. It is a rattlesnake but in a different way to Disk.

People attack into Disk to force your hand. Unless somebody can kill you, they won't attack into Legacy Weapon. Disk nukes everything, whilst Legacy Weapon takes out the single most important thing on their board. Generally I use it very diplomatically, in a way that demonstrates that it's just there for my protection and use it to steer people away from me, whilst also acting on the wishes of the group when it comes to blowing things up.

One of the MVPs in my deck is + / . I like chewing peoples faces off with big stompy dragons forever.

_________________
2C:
Nath (Elves everywhere); Wort, the Raidmother (Goblins everywhere)
Shards:
Big Mac and Pickles (Angus Mackenzie Control inc. Pickles Lock)|Sharuum (Artifact Combo)|Garza Zol (Vampires+Goodstuff); Sedris (I can steal anything); Nicol Bolas (WIP)|Kresh (Jund Good Stuff);Karrthus (Dragon Tokens Everywhere)|Tamanoa (Earthquakes Galore)
Wedges:
Oros (Life gaining Pings)|Riku's Perfect Snowstorm (Variety of Storms+Snow)|Doran the Explorer (Wall Tribal)|Ruhan (Voltron);Zedruu (Enchantments)
5C:
Scion (Dragon Stompy Midrange)


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 Post subject: Re: Scion of the BUr-rokenness
AgePosted: 2011-Dec-13 4:41 pm 

Joined: 2011-Jun-04 2:20 pm
Age: Dragon
is also pretty awesome.


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 Post subject: Re: Scion of the BUr-rokenness
AgePosted: 2011-Dec-13 4:52 pm 

Joined: 2009-Jun-05 7:30 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Yeah, I was running nature's will until Sword of F&F came out. I didn't want to increase the count because it felt about right to do it every so often, but not every game.

_________________
2C:
Nath (Elves everywhere); Wort, the Raidmother (Goblins everywhere)
Shards:
Big Mac and Pickles (Angus Mackenzie Control inc. Pickles Lock)|Sharuum (Artifact Combo)|Garza Zol (Vampires+Goodstuff); Sedris (I can steal anything); Nicol Bolas (WIP)|Kresh (Jund Good Stuff);Karrthus (Dragon Tokens Everywhere)|Tamanoa (Earthquakes Galore)
Wedges:
Oros (Life gaining Pings)|Riku's Perfect Snowstorm (Variety of Storms+Snow)|Doran the Explorer (Wall Tribal)|Ruhan (Voltron);Zedruu (Enchantments)
5C:
Scion (Dragon Stompy Midrange)


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 Post subject: Re: Scion of the BUr-rokenness
AgePosted: 2011-Dec-23 2:14 am 
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Joined: 2011-Dec-06 5:57 am
Age: Drake
Hey all, thanks for the constructive comments!

I really like the idea of Hellkite Charger & Sword of F&F, so I'm putting that in :)
I'm also cutting Necropotence in favor of Phyrexian Arena because my hand is stocked most of the time and for Necro to be really effective you need to be able to empty your hand quicker. Also, Phyrexian Arena is easier on my manabase.

+1
+1
+1
+1
+1
-1
-1
-1
-1
-1

I'm not entirely sure if cutting Numot is the way to go, but I've never fetched him with Scion, which says it all.

In my first draft of this deck I played with the idea of Soldevi Digger to return dragons to my library but playing has proved this is not necessary. I usually don't play Scion until I'm ready to kill my most dangerous opponent in two big turns (Bolas into Tyrant) This deck simply controls the game up until that point. I often even "forget" all about my commander ;) Also, dragons with comes into play abilities don't trigger when fetched with Scion and Malfegor does me more harm than good (having to throw away on average 5 cards.) He's only good in 1 vs 1 games where you get swarmed. Prismatic Omen is something to think about, but after cutting Strip Mine for Temple Garden my mana base has improved a great deal.

I also like the idea of Living Death + Karrthus but I think that changes the focus of the deck a bit too much. It's great to do once, but next time they'll see it coming.

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 Post subject: Re: Scion of the BUr-rokenness
AgePosted: 2011-Dec-23 12:29 pm 

Joined: 2009-Jun-05 7:30 am
Age: Elder Dragon
If you're finding that you don't wind up playing Scion that much, that's probably due to your low dragon count. I see 9. Check out the link below for a discussion of the various dragons you could consider.

viewtopic.php?f=16&t=7114

Scion -> Bladewing -> Teneb -> Recur Bladewing -> Switch to another Dragon -> Recur Teneb forms an awesome chain, as it creates a very solid board position with no cards played from hand. This allows you to continue accumulating cards in hand whilst forcing people to find and expend solutions. This alone justifies playing scion every game.

I'm not so keen on the use of
Black Bringer - there are better ways to tutor e.g.
Mindslaver - Personal preference. There are a lot of good ways to win for this deck, it doesn't need slaver
Helm of Obedience
Cruel Ultimatum - too mana intensive
Dimir Machinations - too restrictive, there are better options that cost less.
Chainer's Edict - IMO bad in this format. Unless you face a lot of Voltron/Uril it's plain bad.
Maelstrom Pulse - I like things to be instant, mass, 187 or steal. Consider , , , , , or

Mana wise I would...
Cut
Terramorphic Expanse
Evolving Wilds
Thawing Glaciers
Shizo
Wasteland
Maze of Ith
One or two of
Cultivate
Kodama's Reach
Explosive Vegetation
Far Wanderings
Because you are low on basics/coloured sources

Consider in their place
More Basics
More Shocks, Duals or Fetches (if you can)


in Maze's Place
, or to recur Fetches
- like that needed saying



- It just wins games.
- if you fetch Academy first, you are pretty much sorted.


Recursion wise you are missing some stellar cards





- Excellent with Bladewing and Teneb


Also with so many instants and sorceries the following wouldn't go amiss


- It may say random, but it often doesn't feel like that. First time I played this, I managed to replay a vampiric tutor 6 times in one game.

Can I also recommend as a personal favourite. I mentioned that powerful chain earlier. If you have Mistmeadow Witch in play, you can exile Bladewing in response to a wrath. At EoT return Bladewing and recur Teneb to reset your board position back to awesome. Unless you face 2 wraths you can probably get the witch back next turn. She is also very cool with EtB in general particularly . Can also disrupt attacks a la Maze.

_________________
2C:
Nath (Elves everywhere); Wort, the Raidmother (Goblins everywhere)
Shards:
Big Mac and Pickles (Angus Mackenzie Control inc. Pickles Lock)|Sharuum (Artifact Combo)|Garza Zol (Vampires+Goodstuff); Sedris (I can steal anything); Nicol Bolas (WIP)|Kresh (Jund Good Stuff);Karrthus (Dragon Tokens Everywhere)|Tamanoa (Earthquakes Galore)
Wedges:
Oros (Life gaining Pings)|Riku's Perfect Snowstorm (Variety of Storms+Snow)|Doran the Explorer (Wall Tribal)|Ruhan (Voltron);Zedruu (Enchantments)
5C:
Scion (Dragon Stompy Midrange)


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 Post subject: Re: Scion of the BUr-rokenness
AgePosted: 2011-Dec-29 4:29 pm 
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Joined: 2011-Dec-06 5:57 am
Age: Drake
Another round of great suggestions Daan! Most of the cuts you suggest have felt like cards to cut while playing but I needed a little push, thanks :)

These are the changes I've made to the deck today:

+1
+1
+1
+1
+1 (great idea with the Ruins, and fetchable with Tinker Mage if need be)
+1
+1 (this guy might prove to be nuts in this deck)
-1
-1
-1
-1
-1
-1
-1

I'm still working on including and upping the Dragon count by returning to the deck and adding (also previously suggested by Sinis.) I'll probably cut , and ... well, as I said, I'm working on it :) I do need to mention that some members of my playgroup like their tribes a bit much for to be truly effective. However, there's another playgroup (which I frequent less) who are more EDH minded where I could do my Bidding (hehe)

I think I'll replace with . It's the extra sweeper I'm looking for after cutting the Disk earlier.

I've also taken another look at my mana and cutting most of the basic land search from the deck (both spells and lands) fixes a lot of issues:

+1
+1
+1
+1
+1
+1
+1
+1
+1
-1
-1
-1
-1
-1
-1
-1
-1
-1

Lots of changes, maybe I should update the original post huh?

As for the your Bladewing->Teneb thing. Can't I just attack with Scion, fetch Teneb, let the trigger go on the stack targetting Teneb and fetch another dragon to avoid the Legend rule?

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Gambling with mages never is.



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 Post subject: Re: Scion of the BUr-rokenness
AgePosted: 2011-Dec-30 3:48 am 

Joined: 2010-Dec-14 2:19 am
Age: Wyvern


Last edited by Genesis on 2011-Dec-31 1:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Scion of the BUr-rokenness
AgePosted: 2011-Dec-30 12:28 pm 
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Joined: 2011-Dec-06 5:57 am
Age: Drake

_________________
Gambling with mages never is.



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 Post subject: Re: Scion of the BUr-rokenness
AgePosted: 2011-Dec-30 1:20 pm 

Joined: 2010-Dec-14 2:19 am
Age: Wyvern


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 Post subject: Re: Scion of the BUr-rokenness
AgePosted: 2011-Dec-30 2:28 pm 

Joined: 2010-Aug-27 1:23 pm
Age: Wyvern
Please repost your list, I have no idea what is and is not on the list, for purposes of being helpful??


But I will try anyway.
Helm of Obedience is fantastic..... if you are running leyline of the void.
Killing an opponent every turn is pretty good.

Numot is a must if you are playing competitive, but a must cut if you plan on remaining friends with anyone at the table. (as is true for land destruction in general).

I would reiterate the suggestions of Keiga and Greater Good, both can be drastically helpful

Hope this helps


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 Post subject: Re: Scion of the BUr-rokenness
AgePosted: 2011-Dec-31 4:27 am 
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Joined: 2011-Dec-06 5:57 am
Age: Drake
Here's the updated list:

Commander:


Dragons:










Other creatures:










Planeswalkers:



Artifacts:














Enchantments:








Instants:







Sorceries:
















Lands:































3





Sideboard:










_________________
Gambling with mages never is.



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 Post subject: Re: Scion of the BUr-rokenness
AgePosted: 2011-Dec-31 8:34 am 

Joined: 2010-Dec-14 2:19 am
Age: Wyvern
There's still several cards what i could cut and add other cards. I would advice looking here if you haven't already: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=315423

That list has some money cards there (, )ut you can do fine without them.


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