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MTG Commander/Elder Dragon Highlander • View topic - HELP WITH ELESH NORN EDH

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 Post subject: HELP WITH ELESH NORN EDH
AgePosted: 2015-Sep-01 1:15 am 

Joined: 2015-Jul-16 6:12 pm
Age: Wyvern
Hi everyone!
I'm writing this topic because I have in mind the idea of building an EDH with as a commander.
Since I'm not an expert on mono W decks, I wanna ask you all for ideas on which cards should I play.
My idea was of a control deck more than a token one, focusing on using Elesh only at the end: put into the deck tons of removal and, after having wiped the board several times, play some finishers like , then elesh and win. I seek cards that can help me achieve this goal.
I would like this deck to be as competitive as possible: in my local group we play a lot of infinite combos or unfair strategies, so there is no room for fun/flavorful cards, sadly.
I appreciate every help you can possibly give me. Thank you for your time and patience!


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 Post subject: Re: HELP WITH ELESH NORN EDH
AgePosted: 2015-Sep-01 1:59 am 

Joined: 2013-Aug-20 4:37 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Boston
You're going to have an uphill battle with monowhite against infinite combos and such. You're probably going to need to get a decent number of rule-setting cards in there to stop that kind of crap. , , , that sort of thing. You might also be able to protect yourself with effects like or . and can help if people are generally tutoring up their combos.


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 Post subject: Re: HELP WITH ELESH NORN EDH
AgePosted: 2015-Sep-01 2:09 am 
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Joined: 2009-Aug-20 7:49 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Hampshire
Some addtional suggestions to build on JJacksons;



(if counterspells are a problem)

Mono-white suffers from a severe lack of card draw. You'll want as much as you can get, mainly in the form of artifacts, such as or .

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"The President's job - and if someone sufficiently vain and stupid is picked he won't realize this - is not to wield power, but to draw attention away from it." -- Douglas Adams, predicting the future.


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 Post subject: Re: HELP WITH ELESH NORN EDH
AgePosted: 2015-Sep-01 5:28 am 

Joined: 2015-Jul-16 6:12 pm
Age: Wyvern
Isn't it a bit too risky to simply try and prevent infinite combos (or standard combos) strategied instead of having my own battle plan? After all, since we play only multiplayer games of at least 4 people, I suppose I just need to be able to put some combo blocking stuff and not all of these cards you suggested (hoping other more qualified players, such as the ones with counterspells, will deal with it). Which ones interact best with the battle plan I have in mind, namely using tons of removals and winning by tokens pumped by elesh?
About card drawing effects, I had already in mind to include and . Can you tell me what other cards could I play in order to get some card advantage in a colors that struggles to obtain it?


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 Post subject: Re: HELP WITH ELESH NORN EDH
AgePosted: 2015-Sep-01 7:23 am 
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Joined: 2012-Dec-03 3:16 am
Age: Elder Dragon


Last edited by Inkeyes22 on 2015-Sep-01 9:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: HELP WITH ELESH NORN EDH
AgePosted: 2015-Sep-01 7:41 am 
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Joined: 2012-Feb-07 4:15 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
I'm sorry to say this, but it's true: mono-white just plain sucks in a hyper competitive meta. There isn't even a single general that's considered viable. Especially a big mono white general just can't compete in a competitive meta. Combo decks will kill you too quickly, control decks will win the war of attrition, midrange will do a mix of both, and mana denial/lockdown will put a stranglehold on your already suboptimal card/mana advantage. And Elesh Norn is unfortunately one of hose generals that only does good work if you're ahead or at a standstill. She is terrible at the catch-up game, which is unfortunately the game mono-white is basically forced to play against generals like Mimeoplasm, Brago, Riku, and Derevi.

Now, you're describing a pretty standard control deck: keep crap from getting out of hand until you can stick a win condition. There are several white generals that excel at this category: , , and come to mind if you're looking for straight-up control. If you want to mix mana denial, lockdown, or combo into the mix then you could consider , , , or . There are also a few non-white control guys that sound like what you're trying to do, specifically and .

Your other option is to play in a less competitive meta.


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 Post subject: Re: HELP WITH ELESH NORN EDH
AgePosted: 2015-Sep-02 4:23 am 

Joined: 2015-Jul-16 6:12 pm
Age: Wyvern
Ok I get it. I suppose I can convince my friends not to run the best of the best among their commanders and to use the ones they have which are still built competitively but not unfair (they have an , a and ).
Could you still help me building a mono W Elesh norn deck with a control plan? Thank you for suggesting : I didn't think about it.
Are there any source of card advantage or board advantage? How many swipes should I include?


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 Post subject: Re: HELP WITH ELESH NORN EDH
AgePosted: 2015-Sep-02 5:27 am 
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Joined: 2012-Feb-07 4:15 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Alright, so as I implied earlier, choosing Elesh Norn means you have given up any chance of winning or even making good plays in the early game. So, what you need to do is focus on building up your board early game and then controlling the mid and the endgame with as much card efficiency as possible.

The first thing you need is mana. Not only do you have an expensive general, but all of white's good draw options are stupidly over costed. So you need lots of mana. Lots. If you think you have enough, you probably need just a little more. Since your early-game presence will be second to none, your mana ramp choices should always be quantity over speed. , , , , , , , , , , , , , and are all some of your better starting points. These cards aren't ramp per se, but the aforementioned Land Tax alongside , , , and are all cards that can help get lands into your hand while thinning out the deck.

Next up is card draw, which is essential for any good control deck. A lot of your draw spells will come in the form of cantrips and cycling spells, such as , , or . As for actual draw spells, and , and are your only real options within the color white. Depending on what other cards you include in the deck, , , and may or may not be useful as well. You do have tons of artifact means of draw, but it depends on just how overpriced you're willing for it to be. is a must though; you won't get better than it in white.

Next up is removal, which with Elesh Norn is a hyper paradox. Spot removal is technically card disadvantage in a multiplayer format, but at the same time you sometimes only need to kill one target and other times you need a specific target to die instantly. Sword and Path are definitely musts, and I would probably include and for good measure (oblation doubles as a draw spell late game). Using sweepers with her is also weird because she is sort of a sweeper. Long story short, you will need to play many games with different densities of each type of removal before you can find out what works best. I can tell you that I personally have absolutely no idea.

And finally, you need to win. Your win conditions should mostly be giant pieces of fat that either win or die. Blightsteel, any Eldrazi, Iona, Akroma, and are some of your best options there. You could also try to throw in some little dudes that make a rush for the endgame like or .


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 Post subject: Re: HELP WITH ELESH NORN EDH
AgePosted: 2015-Sep-02 11:29 am 

Joined: 2013-Oct-09 7:02 am
Age: Elder Dragon
You could get some ideas for mono white control from this:
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/yosei-the-morning-star-2/
Keep in mind the list hasn't been updated in a year.


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 Post subject: Re: HELP WITH ELESH NORN EDH
AgePosted: 2015-Sep-02 1:33 pm 
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Joined: 2009-Aug-20 7:49 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Hampshire

_________________
"The President's job - and if someone sufficiently vain and stupid is picked he won't realize this - is not to wield power, but to draw attention away from it." -- Douglas Adams, predicting the future.


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 Post subject: Re: HELP WITH ELESH NORN EDH
AgePosted: 2015-Sep-02 9:08 pm 

Joined: 2008-Aug-08 6:34 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Rouen, France

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Current decks:
Sydri's random pile of cards with "Artifact" on them
Scarab God Zombie Horde
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 Post subject: Re: HELP WITH ELESH NORN EDH
AgePosted: 2015-Sep-13 10:08 am 

Joined: 2015-Jul-16 6:12 pm
Age: Wyvern
After some tests with your advice in mind, I came up with this list.

GENERAL


ARTIFACTS


ENCHANTMENTS


CREATURES


SORCERIES


LANDS


INSTANTS


PLANESWALKERS


I would like to know from yuo which bomb cards did I miss and not include and which cards among those that I chose are suboptimal. For example, don't really find as useful as it seems, but perhaps I'm mistaken.
Do you find this a good list?


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 Post subject: Re: HELP WITH ELESH NORN EDH
AgePosted: 2015-Sep-15 12:20 am 
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Joined: 2009-Aug-20 7:49 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Hampshire
I recommend re-posting this to the decklists forum, since you're now at that point.

You seem light on land. I'd try to get that closer to 40. I know you've got a bunch of rocks, but that doesn't help if you don't get the land to cast your rocks. Maybe cut a few things you aren't happy with and just throw in some more plains.

_________________
"The President's job - and if someone sufficiently vain and stupid is picked he won't realize this - is not to wield power, but to draw attention away from it." -- Douglas Adams, predicting the future.


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 Post subject: Re: HELP WITH ELESH NORN EDH
AgePosted: 2015-Sep-15 4:23 am 
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Joined: 2012-Feb-07 4:15 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Karmic Justice is a very niche card. It only works in certain decks AND certain metas. If your meta runs a lot of land destruction and targeted removal, it may be worth it. If not, it isn't.

The only card I find objectionable is . It just doesn't synergize too well with the rest of your creatures. It's basically a that's harder to reattach and it also does to wraths. If you had a more combat-oriented general he might be worth the spot but as of now he's just... Ok.

Speaking of wraths, why is missing?


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 Post subject: Re: HELP WITH ELESH NORN EDH
AgePosted: 2015-Sep-15 5:21 am 

Joined: 2015-Jul-16 6:12 pm
Age: Wyvern


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