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MTG Commander/Elder Dragon Highlander • View topic - Is panoptic mirror really format warping?

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 Post subject: Is panoptic mirror really format warping?
AgePosted: 2014-Sep-18 10:55 am 

Joined: 2011-Apr-07 11:38 am
Age: Elder Dragon
I understand that it combos with any sorcery that says take an extra turn, but I don't feel that is cause enough for its banning. It seems to me the cards that it generally makes really powerful are already unplayable due to them being hated out of the format (mass land destruction and extra turns).

It's also really easy to answer. Artifact removal may not have always been a popular thing, but that's not the case anymore. Decks are typically constructed to have answers to everything now.

This card looks to me like a really fun interactive card that has been banned because it has some combo potential. Combo potential should not cause a card to be banned unless we want an extremely large banned list. Tooth and nail, kiki-jiki, triskelion, Ghave, and Sword of feast and famine would all have to be banned.

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 Post subject: Re: Is panoptic mirror really format warping?
AgePosted: 2014-Sep-18 11:26 am 

Joined: 2011-Sep-30 6:08 am
Age: Elder Dragon


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 Post subject: Re: Is panoptic mirror really format warping?
AgePosted: 2014-Sep-18 11:37 am 

Joined: 2011-Apr-07 11:38 am
Age: Elder Dragon
But this could be said about a million other cards that aren't banned. is terrible to play against if you like playing creatures. No one is happy to see a on the other side of the table. certainly doesn't promote fun. And these 3 examples can be used as your commander making them quite difficult to deal with.

I'm not saying you cant be a dirtbag player with the mirror, I'm just saying you don't have to be.

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 Post subject: Re: Is panoptic mirror really format warping?
AgePosted: 2014-Sep-18 12:24 pm 

Joined: 2014-Jul-26 11:35 am
Age: Elder Dragon
My question would be, what do you want to put under your mirror?

I assume as you have started this thread that you want to be able to use the card, so I am interested to know what you imagine the game is going to be like at the time you play this?

There just aren't a lot of things I can imagine wanting to put under a mirror that are both fun and worthwhile. I mean you could just put divination under there, but you'd probably be better off playing staff of nin.

Furthermore, just because you're not being a jerk with it, doesn't mean I cant steal or copy your's and then run away with it. If we take you're comparison with the praetors, if I copy your Vorinclex or Jin Gitaxtis, then we are at parity. If i copy your panoptic mirror, one of us could be winning the game and one of us could be doing nothing.

Ultimately there's seems to be several good reasons for it to be banned, but pretty much none for it to be allowed.

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 Post subject: Re: Is panoptic mirror really format warping?
AgePosted: 2014-Sep-18 3:32 pm 

Joined: 2011-Apr-07 11:38 am
Age: Elder Dragon
What are these good reasons? Cards being part of a strong combo don't warrant a ban as I pointed out above. Take tooth and nail for example. I have never seen this card resolved and not caused the player and overwhelming advantage or strait up game win.

If you are in a competitive meta, then the combo of mirror/time warp doesn't even seem all that strong to me (it's not played in legacy to my knowledge).

I wanted to run it in a Melek deck with lots of targets honestly (it's sorcery/instant themed). It was in the deck until I realized it wasn't legal. Cool things to cast with it would have been , , or . would probably be the worst card to imprint which is really speaking to the power of rite, not the mirror (it is another card never resolves without giving the caster extreme advantage, but still not banned).

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 Post subject: Re: Is panoptic mirror really format warping?
AgePosted: 2014-Sep-18 3:38 pm 

Joined: 2011-Apr-07 11:38 am
Age: Elder Dragon

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 Post subject: Re: Is panoptic mirror really format warping?
AgePosted: 2014-Sep-18 6:51 pm 

Joined: 2010-Dec-03 3:54 pm
Age: Drake
First, comparing to - a card that 1) should be banned and 2) has nearly double the effective mana cost does not help your case.

As for why Panoptic Mirror is banned, this is because of the combination of very easily being a highly warping card (easily on par with Tooth and Nail), combined with precisely your impression of it - it looks fun.

I suggest you print out a few proxies of the card and ask every player in your group to add it to their decks, and play with it for a few weeks. Then you can come back and actually discuss the card in a meaningful manner; I suspect that unless your entire playgroup focuses on style group-hug decks, even the most seemingly benign uses of the Mirror will distort your games into 3v1 after the first week.

As part of this experiment, make sure that everyone understands exactly how the card works - you choose which imprinted card you wish to copy when the triggered ability resolves, not when it is put in the stack. This means you can respond to the upkeep trigger by imprinting a card, then copying that card when the ability resolves that upkeep.

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 Post subject: Re: Is panoptic mirror really format warping?
AgePosted: 2014-Sep-18 11:59 pm 
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Last edited by Sid the Chicken on 2014-Sep-19 1:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Is panoptic mirror really format warping?
AgePosted: 2014-Sep-19 12:57 am 

Joined: 2013-Aug-20 4:37 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Boston


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 Post subject: Re: Is panoptic mirror really format warping?
AgePosted: 2014-Sep-19 6:20 am 

Joined: 2010-Dec-03 3:54 pm
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 Post subject: Re: Is panoptic mirror really format warping?
AgePosted: 2014-Sep-19 7:20 am 

Joined: 2011-Apr-07 11:38 am
Age: Elder Dragon

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 Post subject: Re: Is panoptic mirror really format warping?
AgePosted: 2014-Sep-19 7:24 am 

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 Post subject: Re: Is panoptic mirror really format warping?
AgePosted: 2014-Sep-19 8:05 am 

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 Post subject: Re: Is panoptic mirror really format warping?
AgePosted: 2014-Sep-19 10:30 am 

Joined: 2009-Apr-21 3:38 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Palm Springs Area, CA
Try it out. Weve had fun with it before. If it doesn't cause problems for you guys i don't see why you shouldn't play with it.

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 Post subject: Re: Is panoptic mirror really format warping?
AgePosted: 2014-Sep-19 1:43 pm 
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Joined: 2012-Dec-03 3:16 am
Age: Elder Dragon
I so agree with Niheloim, everybody thinks just because this is banned here (or any other banlist on any other website) that it cannot be used, assuming that your play group agrees. I have had fun games with just about every banned card on the list. I have had crappy games that did not include any banned cards.

If you want to play with the mirror, do so. If you abuse it just know that your friends will likely not want to play against that deck again.

It is kind of a big waste of time to build a deck for one game. I was putting together a Zurgo deck that was going to be a voltron/wrath.dec but as I was putting it together I was reminded of a Avacyn wrath.dec I built that ended up as Avacyn carrying Worldslayer. After a game nobody wanted to play against it...

Just my two cents.


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