[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
MTG Commander/Elder Dragon Highlander • View topic - Fastbond Problem

Login | Register


All times are UTC - 7 hours


It is currently 2020-Jan-18 11:55 am




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 127 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 ... 9  Next
Author Message
 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2009-Apr-15 6:44 am 
User avatar

Joined: 2008-May-28 3:42 pm
Age: Dragon
Here's my problem with Fastbond + Crucible: It's really unfun, for the person playing it and certainly for whoever is on the receiving end. Against other mass LD spells, you've got time to assemble a response, since Armageddon costs 4. Fastbond+Crucible can come down as early as turn one. It doesn't really matter if you have Zuran Orb yet or not if you're dropping turn one Fastbond and Crucible. But Fastbond alone doesn't do anything. It's innoffensive. At best, it helps you get over land gluts with Future Sight or lets you power out a fatty a couple turns early. Crucible is what makes Fastbond hiedeously boring.
With Crucible, there are tons of ways to get artifacts back from the graveyard in many colors. With Fastbond, Crucible is the only efficient way to get land back, meaning that without Crucible anything like Strip Mine or Wasteland are still only a one, maybe 2, shot deal. Cartographer is ok with Astral Slide, but it's still no Crucible. And Crucible can be run in any deck. Should any deck not be playing Crucible? Should any deck running green not be running Fastbond+Crucible+Zuran Orb?
The problem is definately not Fastbond here. Fastbond, while decent by itself, really requires a couple other cards to be amazing: Future Sight, Crucible, or Storm Cauldron. Future Sight is amazing, for sure, but it's certainly not ban-worthy. It's just steller card advantage if you get it to stick. I've never even seen anyone talk about Storm Cauldron for EDH, let alone use it, so clearly it's not a bannable powerhouse. Indeed, the only card that makes Fastbond so ridiculously unfun is Crucible. And Crucible doesn't even need Fastbond to be unfun. Your opponent missing land drops? Strip mine, play strip mine, do it again. Then again next turn, and so on. You've got your opponent under a Mindslaver lock, but he blew up your Academy Ruins? Good thing any deck can run Crucible!

Crucible was the only card on the banned list that I thought would never even be considered for unbanning.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2009-Apr-15 8:51 am 
EDH Rules Committee
User avatar

Joined: 2007-Jan-05 12:58 am
Age: Elder Dragon

_________________
Blog - Twitter


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2009-Apr-15 9:25 am 
EDH Rules Committee
User avatar

Joined: 2007-Jan-05 12:58 am
Age: Elder Dragon

_________________
Blog - Twitter


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Bonita says:
AgePosted: 2009-Apr-15 12:47 pm 
User avatar

Joined: 2009-Jan-29 5:35 pm
Age: Drake

_________________
Net Decking . . . FTW!!!


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2009-Apr-15 3:13 pm 
User avatar

Joined: 2007-Sep-21 8:22 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Okay, let's assume that 15 cards comprise the turboland package, and there are 10 tutors in your deck to find these cards. Basically 1/4 of your deck is part of your combo. By turn 3 you expect to see 10 cards, so 1/10th of your deck. How much of your combo should you see by then? Only 2 1/2 pieces of it. Okay, so you're just at synergy now and you're not combo'd off. But wait you can't have 2 1/2. So you have either 2 or 3 components of your combo. If you have 2, okay you didn't combo off. If you have 3 you did. Since it's an infinite combo requiring 3 mana not even mentioning free fastbond mana you'd expect to go off that turn. So...let's say there's a 8 player game with 3 players playing turboland shenanegans. Turn 3 you have 1 or 2 players going infinite. WAS THAT FUN FOR YOU? K thx.

Now you can debate the size of the turboland package and whether or not horn of green and fastbond goes off and whatever you want but IF these numbers were accurate, would you have a serious issue? Even if it was just fastbond crucible with a sensei's divining top and a fetchland, would you be scared? I would... No matter how many times you take the $#&^ combo it's coming back and it's infinite every time so turn 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 . . . you fight combo monkeys. I thought we didn't fight vs infinite combo monkeys in EDH. . .


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2009-Apr-15 3:57 pm 
User avatar

Joined: 2008-Sep-15 10:38 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Portland, OR


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2009-Apr-15 4:32 pm 

Joined: 2008-Nov-14 12:52 am
Age: Wyvern


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2009-Apr-15 4:53 pm 
User avatar

Joined: 2009-Jan-29 5:35 pm
Age: Drake

_________________
Net Decking . . . FTW!!!


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2009-Apr-15 5:03 pm 
User avatar

Joined: 2009-Jan-29 5:35 pm
Age: Drake

_________________
Net Decking . . . FTW!!!


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2009-Apr-16 7:16 am 

Joined: 2008-Jul-31 11:41 am
Age: Wyvern


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2009-Apr-16 8:13 am 
User avatar

Joined: 2007-Mar-28 12:38 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Omaha

_________________
Hypercasual and Proud

Current Deck-building Project(s):

Izoni, Thousand Eyed (Elf Tribal-ish)
Building $15-25 "Intro to Commander" Decks for my Local LGS


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2009-Apr-16 8:59 am 
User avatar

Joined: 2008-May-28 3:42 pm
Age: Dragon


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2009-Apr-16 9:34 am 

Joined: 2008-Jul-31 11:41 am
Age: Wyvern


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2009-Apr-16 10:17 am 

Joined: 2009-Mar-10 4:29 pm
Age: Drake


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2009-Apr-16 10:43 am 

Joined: 2008-Jun-20 7:38 am
Age: Elder Dragon

_________________
Current Generals:
Rafiq, Sharuum, Nekusar, Kresh, Mayael, Kaalia, Maelstrom Wanderer, Ghave, Ruhan, Mimeoplasm, Genju of the Realm, Phelddagrif, Derevi, Oloro, Jenara, Karrthus, Marath, Tariel, Riku, Karador, Numot, Damia, Sliver Overlord, Karn, Silver Golem


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 127 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 ... 9  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 15 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: