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MTG Commander/Elder Dragon Highlander • View topic - Ulrich of the Krallenhorde - Werewolf Tribal

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 Post subject: Ulrich of the Krallenhorde - Werewolf Tribal
AgePosted: 2016-Jul-17 3:54 pm 

Joined: 2016-Jul-17 2:12 pm
Age: Wyvern
Crosspost from NoGoblinsAllowed forums. Thought I'd get input from the EDH specialists over here.

I'm building Ulrich of the Krallenhorde as an attempt to get werewolves to function...at least moderately. i understand that werewolves have a huge problem in commander.
The vast majority of their power is on the night side of their card and the only way to get there is to have a turn of no spells being cast.
If you have a werewolf on the board it's pretty obvious what you're doing and usually somebody at the table has an instant or flash spell to cast during your turn to keep your werewolves tame.

My goal with this deck is to apply enough ways to bend casting timing restrictions and other things in order to get my cute puppies to transform. I have not playtested this deck. I have no idea how it will fair in my meta, but we're generally fairly chill. We do have some strong players with some strong decks, but they understand how to restrain themselves where needed.

I want this thread to focus on ways to help enable taking a turn off, usually your own turn, that also at least disincentivises our opponents from casting a spell on our turn.







Version 2 Update:
I've had some games with the deck and it works surprisingly ok in my playgroup. While there is plenty to add, the most useful advice I got from friends post-games was what to cut. Admittedly they named pretty much werewolves exclusively so I'm going to have to temper their suggestions with the need to keep the tribal synergies at an appropriate saturation. I discuss that in the post below dated 2016-Aug-25 6:51PM.

I've made a couple of swaps already, but there are still some other options to be considered.
went out because my goal is actively to actually NOT cast my werewolves whenever possible so that seems to be at cross purposes. I'm not sure if it's correct because I inevitably do cast some werewolves, but on the other hand it does literal nothing when it enters...
went in for that spot.

is too easily outclassed and so has been replaced by .

I forgot to purchase so at the moment it's being placeheld by , but I really really like how Forgotten Ancient performs in the deck so I'll probably have to find something else to cut for the Master when I finally get one.

Additionally, the responses I got for and were very positive so I'm definitely keeping them. :)

Commander (1)
/

Tier 1 Werewolves (14)
1 x //
1 x //
1 x //
1 x //
1 x //
1 x //
1 x //
1 x //
1 x //
1 x //
1 x //
1 x //
1 x //
1 x //

Efficient Werewolves (10)
1 x //
1 x //
1 x //
1 x //
1 x //
1 x //
1 x //
1 x //
1 x //
1 x //

Big bruiser Werewolves (not necessarily mana efficient) (2)
1 x //
1 x //

Explicit werewolf support cards (9)
1 x
1 x
1 x
1 x
1 x
1 x
1 x
1 x
1 x

Wolf support (4)
1 x
1 x
1 x
1 x

Crucial (2)
1 x
1 x

Transformation Support(16)
1 x
1 x
1 x
1 x
1 x
1 x
1 x
1 x
1 x
1 x
1 x
1 x
1 x
1 x
1 x
1 x

Pump/Utility/Finishers (5)
1 x
1 x
1 x
1 x
1 x

Lands (37)
1 x
1 x
1 x
1 x
1 x
1 x
1 x
1 x
1 x
1 x
1 x
1 x
14 x
11 x


What I'm mostly hoping to hear from you guys are individual card ideas that provide cool interactions. I've searched most of the obvious ones, but maybe I missed something. For example, I found by accident and was pointed out to me at the prerelease.

Additionally if any of the cards I've already left out feel to you like they should be in the deck please let me know. When you make such a suggestion though, could you make a recommendation on what to cut for it? and maybe why?

Of course I'm open to any and all suggestions and welcome any dialogue.


Aside:
Awwww, you guys don't get [deck][/deck] tags over here? Oh well.


Last edited by Flyheight on 2016-Aug-25 3:52 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Ulrich of the Krallenhorde - Werewolf Tribal
AgePosted: 2016-Jul-18 7:56 am 
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Joined: 2012-Nov-27 4:39 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Midgard
?

Anyway...I think you might consider taking out from your list. It pumps your guys, but with the trigger condition requiring casting creatures--something you're generally trying to avoid--you'll be fighting yourself over it a little.

While I think playing would be really cool, another pump effect from or would be better. I didn't see the Ascension listed anywhere, but it is absurdly easy to get going (although frequently the target of destruction).

Overall, a decent start and evaluation of werewolves. I'll have to continue combing through the deck to see if there's anything else I might recommend. I haven't checked my own werewolf deck yet to see if I previously found any gems I might mention.


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 Post subject: Re: Ulrich of the Krallenhorde - Werewolf Tribal
AgePosted: 2016-Jul-18 8:29 am 

Joined: 2016-Jul-17 2:12 pm
Age: Wyvern
Thank you very much for replying Segrus. ^_^

According to MaRo, the name Squee's Toy is a pun on "squeeze toy", as in a dog's chew toy. Thus why it's here.

Ooh, I did not think about that non-bo I've got going on. It should definitely be replaced then. I forgot about . It would definitely make all my werewolves combat viable even on their day side. I'll consider it for the slot.

And your signature reminded me that I need to put my thread here on the cumulative decklist thread.

Edit: Anyone know how to get to autocard to the backside of Arlinn Kord rather than to the emblem?


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 Post subject: Re: Ulrich of the Krallenhorde - Werewolf Tribal
AgePosted: 2016-Jul-18 1:11 pm 
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Joined: 2012-Nov-27 4:39 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Midgard
I suppose I knew about Squee's Toy, so I was more trying to question--while completely understanding the flavorful aspects of it--the validity of using it. It's just...so bad outside of something like , I have to question it's inclusion. I don't mean to question your flavor resolve. Hopefully you'll get some laughs out of it during a game.

After going through some cards, my only other considerations were your rather low card draw and possibly wanting some haste. Like or something, but really the card draw is what's important. I don't know what the right amount of it is for Gruul decks, but I also seem to fit more and more into the decks I play. Lately, has been crazy good with both card draw and saving my butt with some life.

There's probably a number of cards I *could* recommend to take out, but I'm afraid of diluting the flavor aspects of your deck. I might be tempted to pick one of your weaker werewolves, since you're currently sitting at...something like 40-ish werewolves/wolves? I hope that helps some.

I'm not sure about the autocard. I can't seem to get it to work out for the backside of Arlinn to appear. A glitch, I guess.


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 Post subject: Re: Ulrich of the Krallenhorde - Werewolf Tribal
AgePosted: 2016-Jul-18 2:42 pm 

Joined: 2016-Jul-17 2:12 pm
Age: Wyvern
LOL fair enough about . If the deck becomes so truly pressed for space that I can't fit it in I'll cut it, but for now it stays. =p

Yeah, the deck is currently lacking a lot of basic EDH staple types (like removal...) because of how hard it's focusing on getting werewolves to transform.

Haste is something I hadn't considered, but I think I can answer that with the mana base:
<-hehehe...almost makes me want to put in since I haven't had the chance to meld anything yet, almost. XD



Let's see...for card draw I currently have:

admittedly it's only one card
should be able to draw some cards with a little trample assistance of which I have several options
will inevitably end up drawing a few cards
can dig pretty deep
Tutors through my deck
rips creaturs off the top
manifests a card off the top of my deck every turn. It might not be worth a full card on each trigger, but it's something for sure.

I don't know if I can reliably count on // to draw me cards.

With all that accounted for I count 8 "card flow" spells. It probably isn't enough so I'll consider and other things.

Please do go ahead and make recommendations on what to cut. The deck isn't a complete flavor slave, I want it to actually work. Dogpile and Squee's Toy are just silly cards I thought would be funny to add. I only labeled them as "Crucial" because their role is not necessarily obvious or well defined and I thought it would be amusing.
Though I must note that I only have 27 actual werewolves (28 with Arlinn) and I count 8 Wolves/wolf token makers... I guess 36 isn't that far off from 40.


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 Post subject: Re: Ulrich of the Krallenhorde - Werewolf Tribal
AgePosted: 2016-Jul-21 1:04 am 

Joined: 2012-Jun-01 6:02 am
Age: Drake
Location: South Carolina
While I don't quite like this card because of the land destruction, where is your ?

Other spells that make your opponents tap out or punish them for leaving mana up in preparation to play spells on your turn like , or maybe can help you have a quiet turn.


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 Post subject: Re: Ulrich of the Krallenhorde - Werewolf Tribal
AgePosted: 2016-Jul-21 6:41 am 

Joined: 2016-Jul-17 2:12 pm
Age: Wyvern


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 Post subject: Re: Ulrich of the Krallenhorde - Werewolf Tribal
AgePosted: 2016-Jul-21 7:11 am 

Joined: 2012-Jun-01 6:02 am
Age: Drake
Location: South Carolina


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 Post subject: Re: Ulrich of the Krallenhorde - Werewolf Tribal
AgePosted: 2016-Jul-21 7:34 am 
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Joined: 2016-May-16 12:03 pm
Age: Dragon
Location: The Blind Eternities
To be truthful, as far as werewolves should be concerned, Xenagos is better off being your commander because he supplements your creatures quite well in terms of mechanics akin to how Kruphix works well with Eldrazi as to Pharika with snakes as Phenax with Artifacts as Athreos with Allies.

Urlich can stay in the deck though for flavor

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 Post subject: Re: Ulrich of the Krallenhorde - Werewolf Tribal
AgePosted: 2016-Jul-21 8:22 am 

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 Post subject: Re: Ulrich of the Krallenhorde - Werewolf Tribal
AgePosted: 2016-Aug-01 6:44 pm 
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How about ?


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 Post subject: Re: Ulrich of the Krallenhorde - Werewolf Tribal
AgePosted: 2016-Aug-02 1:15 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Ulrich of the Krallenhorde - Werewolf Tribal
AgePosted: 2016-Aug-25 3:51 pm 

Joined: 2016-Jul-17 2:12 pm
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OK. I have had some games with the deck. It functions very well and I'm happy with that, but it is exceedingly underpowered.

I also got some experience playing with different cards in the deck and got some appreciation for some of them. As for some of the others...well...I have a better idea of what can safely be cut. I also know more of what the deck needs.

I went ahead and updated the decklist in the original post. It's not really all that different, only a card here and there, but I figure it's best to have a clear starting point to what I'm working with for this post.

Definitely Out
1 x // <-though passable in 1v1, it's underpowered in multiplayer which is primarily what I play when I break out EDH.
1 x // <-underpowered in multiplayer
1 x // <-underpowered in multiplayer
1 x // <-underpowered in multiplayer
1 x // <-underpowered in multiplayer
1 x // <-underpowered in multiplayer
1 x // <-underpowered in multiplayer
1 x // <-underpowered in multiplayer
1 x // <-underpowered in multiplayer, though not by too much I think
1 x <-While I do have ways around it, it just hurts me so much too
1 x <-too inconsistent
1 x <-nonbo with yeva and orrery
1 x <-nonbo with my entire deck plan (didn't realize it also shuts off abilities during opponents turns too)

Things strongly considered to add:
1 x <-penalizes my opponents for flipping my werewolves back by making my team bigger
1 x // <-I think the backside on this is big enough to warrant adding
1 x <-is a self growing "werewolf"
1 x <-is a "werewolf" that can pump itself to titanic proportions
1 x <-is a gigantic wolf that makes another creature huge too
1 x <-Win condition
1 x <-non-creature removal, can technically be recurred either by being caught in an artifact wrath or if I get really cute with //
1 x <-non-creature removal, hits indestructible things
1 x <-Ulrich now gains me life each time he flips to his backside, he can also kill bigger things.
1 x <-cardflow without casting a spell once it's down
1 x <-mana ramp and more pump
1 x <-pump and flying, I can just fight it with Ulrich to put it in the 'yard
1 x <-cardflow without casting a spell once it's down
1 x <-cardflow without casting a spell once it's down
1 x <-Cardflow without casting a spell once it's down and a little damage
1 x <-protects my creatures, I am a creature based deck and find that I work best once I have achieved a critical mass of puppies. This helps me achieve that critical mass
1 x <-protects my creatures and grows them at the same time. Particularly funny with Ulrich as it turns basically into a one sided fighting monster who grows with every hit.
1 x <-noncreature removal
1 x <-cardflow without casting a spell once it's in the yard

I'm also going to find a few fun lands to swap in, like , but I haven't gone through and decided what I want yet.

Unfortunately the list right now is 13 out to 19 in, so there's definitely more progress to be done.
Does anybody have any thoughts on further cuts or if I shouldn't add some of the cards in my list?


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