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MTG Commander/Elder Dragon Highlander • View topic - Back from the Dead: Horde of Notions

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 Post subject: Back from the Dead: Horde of Notions
AgePosted: 2014-Feb-27 10:00 am 
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Joined: 2012-Nov-27 4:39 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Midgard
Dredge in five colors--the means I'm using to achieve the ultimate goal of this deck, which is to smash through the life totals of my opponents. The very essence of the deck is Elemental Tribal. I play as close to this Tribal soul as I can manage without sacrificing the integrity of the dredge mechanics.

Commander


Elemental Creatures (31 total)
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Dredge Cards/Enablers (13 total)
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Return from the Dead (2 total)
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Utility/Support/Protection (11 total)
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Secondary Strategies (2 total)
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Lands (40 total)
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4 x Forest, Mountain
3 x Swamp, Island, Plains

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Commentary:
I've mostly grouped cards according to purpose and function in order to make the deck more comprehensible. Honestly, I'll admit the Dredge mechanic has also been a curiosity of mine, and while I can understand the strategy intellectually I'm virtually a novice at piloting such a deck. In Legacy, it's a lot different from the normal search/discard of Reanimator decks even though the two share a lot of the same cards.

In this build, I'm currently foregoing the usual suspects in and in favor of bigger draw/discard spells in , , and . I'm not claiming this is the best move, but I'm still too afraid of getting hit hard with a graveyard exile spell to go all-in by including both the big draw and the normal suspects. To be clear, I feel the deck is going to require some balance in getting all the land it can onto the battlefield (which is the spots I'd probably have to take out of the deck to make room for usual suspects).

, as a card, is probably a weird choice. At worst, it discards your entire hand and you put nothing onto the battlefield--now you are topdecking and hopefully you dropped a 'dredger' to generate something. At the very best, you drop it on turn one, put three to five land onto the battlefield, and then draw into Windfall or another big draw spell. This is extremely good. In general, I think at worst it's still pretty good for , who really likes everything to be in the graveyard so it can be accessed with cheaper mana. I've played with Manabond in a previous version of this deck, and the only times I felt bad were times when I was holding a spell I really HAD to resolve--like a planeswalker or something. Note, there's only a handful of cards I couldn't live without casting before dumping my hand with Manabond.

Yes, the dreaded is in here. I'm not pleased about its presence, but I'm going to wait to see if it becomes too oppressive or not. There's not a lot of reanimation spells in here other than the activated ability on Horde of Notions, and the price of {W}{R}{B}{U}{G} for each use is nothing to scoff at. Just think of it this way: the cost to reanimate two creatures with Horde of Notions is the same cost it takes to hard-cast , which I feel is saying something.

My secondary strategies for the deck are mediocre at best. Primal Surge has a lot of instants and sorceries to hit, but hopefully a lot of those will be out of the way in time for having to utilize it. I guess I'll wait and see. Fist of Suns is just a way to reduce the big creature's costs in case reanimating is an issue (in the event Horde gets tucked). I'm not particularly excited about either, but I'm not certain what else to put here.

As far as other Elemental creatures are concerned, I'd really like to see either or both and/or in this list. They are both SO GOOD, even if I can't reanimate them unless I do it in response to their ability triggering. Unfortunately, either I don't own any or my only copies are in decks currently. I also meant to find a , but I couldn't seem to find any in my collection. I'm going to keep looking for one though. The weakest and possibly most useless Elemental is probably Sunflare Shaman. It just never seems to do enough damage, and paying into Horde's ability to reanimate sucks. However, I rank it above , because the cost reduction is never enough for the big Elementals (you normally just get left with a single mana open or something, but nowhere to put it).




Comments, concerns, questions--I welcome all. This deck is currently untested as of this post on (2/27/14), but I'm hoping to get the chance to pilot it and find out. Oh, and as a last second reminder: this deck isn't meant to be really competitive; powerful, yes, but mostly casual. I honestly don't know yet whether it will flop on its face or break you.

I almost forgot! This deck made possible by Kemev's idea a few nights ago after I got face stomped trying to pilot the previous version of this deck. I'm happy for the new direction with this deck. Thanks Kemev!

EDIT: Added lands, Fanatical Devotion, and Dreamscape Artist


Last edited by Segrus on 2014-May-01 8:01 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Back from the Dead: Horde of Notions
AgePosted: 2014-Feb-27 10:05 pm 
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Joined: 2011-Feb-07 3:37 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Danbury, CT

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 Post subject: Re: Back from the Dead: Horde of Notions
AgePosted: 2014-Apr-30 8:04 pm 
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Joined: 2012-Nov-27 4:39 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Midgard
Kemev, you have a lot of great advice. I think I'm going to take changes one or two cards at a time. In a single game, I see a vast majority of the deck, so a single change will make a lot of difference. For now, I'm making these changes:

- Psychic Spiral
- Aquamoeba

+ Fanatical Devotion
+ Dreamscape Artist

Both of these are changes I wanted to make while building the deck, and after confirming how useless Psychic Spiral and Aquamoeba tend to be (even though I didn't really want to take out an Elemental), these two should do me a lot better.

I'm not aiming to put every single Dredge card into the deck, especially since some other self-mill cards will do better. Flashback cards are always going to be good, so I might be switching out some of them depending upon how good they end up being. Shattered Perception might end up replacing Forbidden Alchemy.

Oh, by the way, turn one Manabond and dumping four other lands into play to set up a turn 2 Horde of Notions is BRUTAL. :twisted:


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 Post subject: Re: Back from the Dead: Horde of Notions
AgePosted: 2014-Apr-30 10:05 pm 
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Joined: 2014-Mar-24 4:31 pm
Age: Wyvern
I'd recommend as well. It looks like crap on paper, but being able to thoughtseize someone any turn you feel like is a pretty big deal and the additional dredge couldn't hurt. It's a really surprisingly effective piece of disruption insurance.
Even if you don't have to worry about counterspells, fogs or what-have-you, it can be a huge roadblock for a single player if you really want to harass them. Your turn rolls around, you see someone sitting with 5 open mana, eagerly eying their hand in anticipation of their next turn and suddenly that 6 drop they were so excited to play evaporates, so they'll make it up with something bigger the next turn. Then you dredge for nightmare void and go in for round 2. Repeat until you're satisfied with the level of hatred you receive from the voidee. Even if it doesn't set up quite that perfectly, just picking off the best option someone has available for several turns in a row can really wear someone down fast.

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 Post subject: Re: Back from the Dead: Horde of Notions
AgePosted: 2014-Apr-30 11:16 pm 

Joined: 2012-Oct-09 1:35 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Stoke-On-Trent, England, UK
I run my Horde of Notions deck as close to tribal as possible too but with mine the only non elementals are , and for obvious reasons. Survival of the fittest is quite essential for this kind of deck where you are using the creatures as answers instead of spells like we are, they are much less flexible and much more expensive, like shriekmaw for example, and evoking them is an option but not always favourable.

Instead of dredge I run two mana doublers and more creatures and some sac out let lands in mine. The mana doublers allow me to afford casting the expensive creatures and also the general and to use his ability. The extra creatures means the deck can function easily without the general as it doesn't often just fall over just because the general isn't available.

I love dredge and ran a Jarad deck for the same reasons, i ended up taking it apart as it was broken but this is a much more fair version being five colours and a somewhat subtheme. Theres not a lot I can suggest that you haven't already got to be honest, the only thing missing is sac lands, like , , which are crucial in elementals if you want to keep cycling a useful creature like with your general or get dredgers dead asap and then dredge. I would get some sac / utility lands, add , and bin off some basics and . (if you really need all the extra mana from realms add a mana doubler just cuz the mana base is so colour intensive)


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 Post subject: Re: Back from the Dead: Horde of Notions
AgePosted: 2014-May-01 5:41 am 
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Joined: 2012-Nov-27 4:39 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Midgard


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 Post subject: Re: Back from the Dead: Horde of Notions
AgePosted: 2014-May-01 8:13 am 

Joined: 2012-Oct-09 1:35 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Stoke-On-Trent, England, UK
I think trying to run dredge alongside the 'standard' beat face of Horde puts you a little behind one or the other I suppose and my suggestions were certainly from the too competitive dredge deck I have experience with. Obviously the nonbasic search was for the sac lands so you don't need one without the other, although the nonbasic land search are epic in 5 colour, I have rarely been stuck for a colour mainly thanks to them tbh, but the decks are different style so thats fair enough. Mine is a toolbox deck where later in the game the grave may or may not be used as an extension of my hand, but rather than purposefully fill it like you are, i let it fill naturally over time. I also think leaving out buried alive is crazy talk for a graveyard based deck running black :-P its never a bad draw really and can be used to great effect with a general like Horde


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 Post subject: Re: Back from the Dead: Horde of Notions
AgePosted: 2014-May-01 8:46 am 
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Joined: 2012-Nov-27 4:39 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Midgard


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 Post subject: Re: Back from the Dead: Horde of Notions
AgePosted: 2014-May-01 11:29 pm 

Joined: 2012-Oct-09 1:35 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Stoke-On-Trent, England, UK
big difference is that buried alive doesn't fill everyone elses hand which could easily be lethal. Don't get me wrong I love me some wheel effects, but normally in decks that punish people for drawing or discarding, personally I see it as too big a draw back in a 5 colour elemental deck that doesn't run any control to defend against several full hands. Although saying that, i might totally see it dominate and steal the idea! haha its one of those try it and see kind of things i reckon! I look forward to seeing it in action. Horde vs Horde? haha :-P


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 Post subject: Re: Back from the Dead: Horde of Notions
AgePosted: 2014-May-02 12:44 am 

Joined: 2009-Nov-28 7:07 am
Age: Elder Dragon
I'd suggest over . Living death has a distinct advantage vs decks that rely strongly on tokens, I suppose.

I'd also personally push for more one-sided draw / discard ( small casting cost, and an instant!), as filling everyone's hands is fun, but living dangerously.


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 Post subject: Re: Back from the Dead: Horde of Notions
AgePosted: 2014-May-02 5:52 am 
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Joined: 2012-Nov-27 4:39 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Midgard


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 Post subject: Re: Back from the Dead: Horde of Notions
AgePosted: 2014-May-02 7:37 pm 

Joined: 2009-Nov-28 7:07 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Well, in that case, I'd strongly suggest over


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 Post subject: Re: Back from the Dead: Horde of Notions
AgePosted: 2015-Apr-14 2:02 pm 
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Joined: 2012-Nov-27 4:39 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Midgard
It's been so long since I've played this deck, but I felt the need to see about some updates. I think I might need to look again into Tarkir cards, because I don't think a single one from the packs I've gotten from the block ended up making it. Then again, I feel I have some other good cards to put into here.

I'm switching out some of the draw I had before and going for more traditional draw cards.

- Wrath of God.....................+
- Whispering Madness.............+
- Wheel of Fortune................+
- Windfall...........................+
- Rites of Flourishing..............+
- Secrets of the Dead.............+
- Phyrexian Altar..................+
- Dread Return.....................+
- Primal Surge......................+


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