Login | Register


All times are UTC - 7 hours


It is currently 2019-Dec-11 3:29 am




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 11 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Neheb, the Unfun
AgePosted: 2019-Nov-16 12:06 pm 
User avatar

Joined: 2011-Jan-16 5:36 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Toronto, ON
This is a kind of fun (not really) combo deck I put together for the casual meta. It ends up feeling kind of bad, because it doesn't really adequately defend itself against other decks; it does that unfun thing of laying low and having superficial amounts of interaction until it can combo off.

General:
Neheb, the Eternal

Creatures:
Guttersnipe
Hanweir Garrison
Prophetic Flamespeaker
Magus of the Wheel
Solemn Simulacrum
Treasonous Ogre
Flametongue Kavu
Inferno Titan
Runehorn Hellkite
Knollspine Dragon
Avatar of Fury

Artifacts:
Lightning Greaves
Ruby Medallion
Coldsteel Heart
Mind Stone
Defense Grid
Armillary Sphere
Cryptolith Fragment
Commander's Sphere
Worn Powerstone
Sword of Fire and Ice
Gauntlet of Might
Pyromancer's Goggles
Gauntlet of Power
Caged Sun

Enchantments:
Pyrohemia
Dictate of the Twin Gods

Sorceries:
Faithless Looting
Gamble
Rolling Earthquake
Shattering Spree
Flame Rift
Recoup
Cathartic Reunion
Jaya's Immolating Inferno
Commune with Lava
Insult // Injury
Bonus Round
Howl of the Horde
Slagstorm
Wheel of Fortune
Past in Flames
Seize the Day
Fiery Confluence
Chain Reaction
Reforge the Soul
Mana Geyser
Fury of the Horde
Blasphemous Act
Apex of Power

Instants:
Pyroblast
Skred
Fall of the Titans
Increasing Vengeance
Comet Storm
Chaos Warp
Ricochet Trap

Planeswalkers:
Jaya Ballard
Koth of the Hammer

Lands:
Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
Spinerock Knoll
High Market
Homeward Path
Hanweir Battlements
Flamekin Village
Wintermoon Mesa
Boseiju, Who Shelters All
Flamekin Village
Smoldering Crater
Forgotten Cave
Scrying Sheets
Mouth of Ronom
Myriad Landscape
Ghitu Encampment
Buried Ruin
24 Snow-covered Mountains

-----

The deck is pretty simple. Ramp and draw as best you can, play interaction when you need to, and try to eventually land a big turn where you damage everyone a little for a big second main in which you X-spell other players out. The draw-7s are almost always worth using, since Recoup or Past in Flames can let you just play cards from your graveyard, and Apex of Power is basically a free draw-7 when you're knee-deep in mana.

There are definitely some poor card choices, but I think the deck is fundamentally unfun in that it's basically a dedicated combo deck that doesn't operate very quickly.

_________________
Check out my old column, Generally Speaking, at CommanderCast.com
http://www.commandercast.com/category/a ... y-speaking

Follow me on Twitter: @generalspeak


Last edited by Sinis on 2019-Nov-16 4:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Neheb, the Unfun
AgePosted: 2019-Nov-16 2:32 pm 
User avatar

Joined: 2011-Nov-16 1:14 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Prague, Heart of Europe
Well, first off, I'd say this bately even counts as a combo deck. I personally would just label it as a regular burn deck =)

Next, what is the budget of this thing? At first, it seems pretty casual as you say, but then I noticed freakin' Gauntlet of Might in there.

Some suggestions:

Mana:
Extraplanar Lens: you're running on Snow Mountains already, so this seems like a natural addition
Neheb, Dreadhorde Champion: might as well take the little brother in, too
Soulbright Flamekin: adds only two mana per turn, but that trample might come in handy

Draw:
Memory Jar: if you wanna talk comboing out, if you wanna talk explosive turns, this is it, man =)
Mind's Eye: seems like until you get to the finish, Neheb should be pretty good at paying for your stuff, so you should have some mana left for this, no?

Also, I have a Rakdos, Lord of Riots deck and if you wanted to increase interactivity, you could basically play Neheb as a mono-red Rakdos. Some of my favorite cards from that deck are:
Sin Prodder: I've been really warming up to this little guy lately. Cheap, good stats and it basically gives out mini-Browbeats every turn.
Molten Primordial: this thing, quite frankly, melts faces. I imagine you not running Insurrection is a conscious decision, as that card is very unfun in my experience, but stealing just one creature per opponent seems fair game to me. The effect being tacked on a 6/4 haster is a really nice bonus.
—the Eldrazi, 'nuff said
Steel Hellkite: like with Mind's Eye, Neheb is probably one of the best generals to utilize this.

Other random things:
Ghitu War Cry: it basically pays for itself here, doesn't it? Plus you can use it to mess with other people's attacks as well.
Captive Flame: as it's really the same card, see above
Bitter Feud: a relatively safe damage doubling option and so much fun to use
Torbran, Thane of Red Fell: do I even have to make the case?
Mirari: you have several fork effect already and as I keep repeating, Neheb should have extra mana for things other decks can't afford
—Equipment in general: ditto, Neheb provides extra mana for damage, equipment provides extra damage for mana. Cards that most decks wouldn't have extra mana for should be okay here. In particular, things like Loxodon Warhammer, Sword of Vengeance and Embercleave would be useful, I think

All I can think of ATM, hope it helps! Cheers for commander burn! =)

_________________
I could be wrong. I'm just not in the mood.
tempesteye wrote:
In my early teens I was a Timmy.
In my late teens I was a Spike.
In my 20's I was a Johnny.
Now, I just like to play.
'Active decks' list here.
Currently hiring servants for my palace, made from my own walls of text.


Last edited by Antis on 2019-Nov-16 7:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Neheb, the Unfun
AgePosted: 2019-Nov-16 2:39 pm 
User avatar

Joined: 2009-Aug-20 7:49 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Hampshire
Antis wrote:
—Molten Primordial: this thing, quite frankly, melts faces. I imagine you not running Insurrection is a conscious decision, as that card is very unfun in my experience, but stealing just one creature per opponent seems fair game to me. The effect being tacked on a 6/4 haster is a really nice bonus.
—the Eldrazi, 'nuff said

So... insurrection is unfun, but annihilator isn't? I am genuinely confused by this.

Heartless Hidetsugu seems like it would be really strong in this deck.

_________________
"The President's job - and if someone sufficiently vain and stupid is picked he won't realize this - is not to wield power, but to draw attention away from it." -- Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide tot he Galaxy Radio Transcripts predicting the future.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Neheb, the Unfun
AgePosted: 2019-Nov-16 3:56 pm 
User avatar

Joined: 2011-Jan-16 5:36 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Toronto, ON
Antis wrote:
Well, first off, I'd say this bately even counts as a combo deck. I personally would just label it as a regular burn deck =)
It's about as combo-y as we get in my group/environment. I'm not usually a combo player.

Quote:
Next, what is the budget of this thing? At first, it seems pretty casual as you say, but then I noticed freakin' Gauntlet of Might in there.
I don't know. Unlimited within what I already own? :D

I obtained many of my cards long ago, before Commander was recognized by WotC, and before the price shocks started happening.

Quote:
Some suggestions:

Mana:
Extraplanar Lens: you're running on Snow Mountains already, so this seems like a natural addition
Neheb, Dreadhorde Champion: might as well take the little brother in, too
Soulbright Flamekin: adds only two mana per turn, but that trample might come in handy

Draw:
Memory Jar: if you wanna talk comboing out, if you wanna talk explosive turns, this is it, man =)
Mind's Eye: seems like until you get to the finish, Neheb should be pretty good at paying for your stuff, so you should have some mana left for this, no?

Extraplanar Lens... is iffy. Artifact hate is pretty rife in my meta. Most of these would not survive anyway. I could see Jar working, and Soulbright for another RR... though, often, this deck doesn't actually utilize the attack step. The usual scenario when I'm going off is that I play something like Flame Rift with a damage doubler or spell copy, and then skip over combat entirely, except for Neheb's trigger. Same concern for Dreadhorde Champ. Even the extra attack step cards are don't... really actually have creatures attack during them.


Quote:
Also, I have a Rakdos, Lord of Riots deck and if you wanted to increase interactivity, you could basically play Neheb as a mono-red Rakdos. Some of my favorite cards from that deck are:
Sin Prodder: I've been really warming up to this little guy lately. Cheap, good stats and it basically gives out mini-Browbeats every turn.
Molten Primordial: this thing, quite frankly, melts faces. I imagine you not running Insurrection is a conscious decision, as that card is very unfun in my experience, but stealing just one creature per opponent seems fair game to me. The effect being tacked on a 6/4 haster is a really nice bonus.
Rakdos provides a lot more 'mana' than Neheb, because the cost reduction was per creature. I had RTR Rakdos a long while ago (right when RTR was released), and it was pretty wild.


Quote:
Other random things:
Ghitu War Cry: it basically pays for itself here, doesn't it? Plus you can use it to mess with other people's attacks as well.
Captive Flame: as it's really the same card, see above
Bitter Feud: a relatively safe damage doubling option and so much fun to use
Torbran, Thane of Red Fell: do I even have to make the case?
Mirari: you have several fork effect already and as I keep repeating, Neheb should have extra mana for things other decks can't afford
—Equipment in general: ditto, Neheb provides extra mana for damage, equipment provides extra damage for mana. Cards that most decks wouldn't have extra mana for should be okay here. In particular, thing like Loxodon Warhammer, Sword of Vengeance and Embercleave would be useful, I think

All I can think of ATM, hope it helps! Cheers for commander burn! =)

A lot of these kind of involve the attack step. Which, my deck doesn't do much. For the newer stuff; I kind of dismantled this deck recently. It was last updated around M19, and as I remove more and more cards for new decks, I kind of wanted to post it as a kept record. I appreciate the suggestions, though, I would say that some of these really wouldn't work; Captive Flame/Ghitu War Cry invite a certain amount of risk without really paying out. The object is usually to get much more mana than you put in; Flame Rift without any help returns 12 mana. Captive Flame would only ever return 1 for 1 (well, maybe 2 for 1 with Flamespeaker).

_________________
Check out my old column, Generally Speaking, at CommanderCast.com
http://www.commandercast.com/category/a ... y-speaking

Follow me on Twitter: @generalspeak


Last edited by Sinis on 2019-Nov-16 3:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Neheb, the Unfun
AgePosted: 2019-Nov-16 3:58 pm 
User avatar

Joined: 2011-Jan-16 5:36 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Toronto, ON
Sid the Chicken wrote:
Heartless Hidetsugu seems like it would be really strong in this deck.

I would probably work well, but it felt like too much of a 2-card combo. Part of the fun was to try and draw into a sufficient number of damage doublers/copy spells to make a spark like Flame Rift or Slagstorm into a bonfire with Jaya's Immolating Inferno or Comet Storm.

_________________
Check out my old column, Generally Speaking, at CommanderCast.com
http://www.commandercast.com/category/a ... y-speaking

Follow me on Twitter: @generalspeak


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Neheb, the Unfun
AgePosted: 2019-Nov-16 8:01 pm 
User avatar

Joined: 2011-Nov-16 1:14 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Prague, Heart of Europe
Sid the Chicken wrote:
Antis wrote:
—Molten Primordial: this thing, quite frankly, melts faces. I imagine you not running Insurrection is a conscious decision, as that card is very unfun in my experience, but stealing just one creature per opponent seems fair game to me. The effect being tacked on a 6/4 haster is a really nice bonus.
—the Eldrazi, 'nuff said

So... insurrection is unfun, but annihilator isn't? I am genuinely confused by this.
At least in my experience, the comparison generally looks like this:

Annihilator:
—needs to stay alive for a turn or another card to provide haste
—one attack is usually ok, sometimes even two are just a Wrath/Planar Cleansing equivalent
—in short, the unfun part that really bothers people is when it starts eating lands and it usually takes a few turns to get there, by which time the player will already be low on life, anyway

Insurrection:
—instant game win out of nowhere

So yes, I do think there is a fair/unfair line to be drawn there.

Of course, I should probably stress that I only play Eldrazi in Rakdos, only three of them total (Kozilek 1.0, Ulamog 1.0 and Pathrazer of Ulamog) and I don't play any tutors. I realize that if you dedicate your whole deck to finding then and cheating them into play as soon as possible, they get much more obnoxious, but that's not what I see Sinis doing with their deck.

On the other hand, Insurrection frequently just flat-out wins games, even- no, ESPECIALLY when you're behind.

_________________
I could be wrong. I'm just not in the mood.
tempesteye wrote:
In my early teens I was a Timmy.
In my late teens I was a Spike.
In my 20's I was a Johnny.
Now, I just like to play.
'Active decks' list here.
Currently hiring servants for my palace, made from my own walls of text.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Neheb, the Unfun
AgePosted: 2019-Nov-16 9:01 pm 
User avatar

Joined: 2011-Nov-16 1:14 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Prague, Heart of Europe
@Sinis:

Yeah, if you don't attack, many of those cards won't help you as much. I at least tried to provide some argumantetion for them, but of course, it's your deck, you take what you need from it =)

_________________
I could be wrong. I'm just not in the mood.
tempesteye wrote:
In my early teens I was a Timmy.
In my late teens I was a Spike.
In my 20's I was a Johnny.
Now, I just like to play.
'Active decks' list here.
Currently hiring servants for my palace, made from my own walls of text.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Neheb, the Unfun
AgePosted: 2019-Nov-17 4:13 am 
User avatar

Joined: 2009-Aug-20 7:49 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Hampshire
Sinis wrote:
Sid the Chicken wrote:
Heartless Hidetsugu seems like it would be really strong in this deck.

I would probably work well, but it felt like too much of a 2-card combo. Part of the fun was to try and draw into a sufficient number of damage doublers/copy spells to make a spark like Flame Rift or Slagstorm into a bonfire with Jaya's Immolating Inferno or Comet Storm.

Fair. I was just looking at it from the perspective of it effectively having "T: Add 60 mana to your mana pool"

Antis wrote:
At least in my experience, the comparison generally looks like this:

I think you're being a little biased there. Insurrection doesn't say "5RRR, win the game". It only works if there is enough on the board to defeat everyone, AND people aren't running sac outlets. And sure, 8 mana red Plague Wind is still a good deal, but it's not an instant win either. You can't attach all the caveats to your analysis of "I swing, and you sac 4 permanents" and not attach the caveats to the other thing. Also "by the time you're saccing lands you're close to dead anyways" doesn't ring true. I've seen a lot of people give up a land to be able to keep a blocker so they don't have to take 12.

_________________
"The President's job - and if someone sufficiently vain and stupid is picked he won't realize this - is not to wield power, but to draw attention away from it." -- Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide tot he Galaxy Radio Transcripts predicting the future.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Neheb, the Unfun
AgePosted: 2019-Nov-17 5:12 am 
User avatar

Joined: 2011-Nov-16 1:14 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Prague, Heart of Europe
IDK, I ran Insurrection in spellslinger Riku, which is to say, I didn't have any creatures of my own when I cast it and long story short, I got rid of it, because even if it didn't end the game right there, it was still the next best thing.

As I keep stressing, that's how the comparison goes for me personally. Only very rarely had problems with Eldrazi, had to kick Insurrection out on account of my own feelings and the feelings of my group.

_________________
I could be wrong. I'm just not in the mood.
tempesteye wrote:
In my early teens I was a Timmy.
In my late teens I was a Spike.
In my 20's I was a Johnny.
Now, I just like to play.
'Active decks' list here.
Currently hiring servants for my palace, made from my own walls of text.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Neheb, the Unfun
AgePosted: 2019-Nov-19 12:21 pm 

Joined: 2011-Feb-07 3:37 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
There was this pretty cool Kumano list earlier this year that was more of a burn-control list instead of a burn-combo list. I liked it pretty well, and I think some of the ideas port over to Neheb (I started building it, but it was too much like my Kaervek deck so I shelved it).

I don't know that repeatedly Earthquake-ing everyones board is necessarily more fun, but it definitely gives you more ways to interact with the table.

Also, is there some compelling reason this list doesn't have Aggravated Assault?

_________________
The deck-o-pedia


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Neheb, the Unfun
AgePosted: 2019-Nov-21 12:30 am 
User avatar

Joined: 2011-Jan-16 5:36 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Toronto, ON
Kemev wrote:
Also, is there some compelling reason this list doesn't have Aggravated Assault?

Actually turning creatures sideways on The Big Turn™ was a rarity, and the card just kind of goes infinite, which we frown upon (people in my groups are more okay with impractically huge numbers than they are with infinite loops).

Same with Hellkite Charger.

_________________
Check out my old column, Generally Speaking, at CommanderCast.com
http://www.commandercast.com/category/a ... y-speaking

Follow me on Twitter: @generalspeak


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 11 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 7 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Majestic-12 [Bot] and 42 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: