Login | Register


All times are UTC - 7 hours


It is currently 2019-Dec-08 5:43 am




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 32 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Two more on the house! — Torbran, the Punisher
AgePosted: 2019-Nov-13 12:30 pm 

Joined: 2019-Mar-15 1:06 pm
Age: Wyvern
I've only played one game against Torbran so far and he died to a Comeuppance fueled by damage from Manabarbs and his own Dictate of the Twin Gods. It was an inglorious end. I'm very interested in playing against more people using him though, so I hope that a few more people around here will build him.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Two more on the house! — Torbran, the Punisher
AgePosted: 2019-Nov-13 12:45 pm 
User avatar

Joined: 2009-Aug-20 7:49 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Hampshire
Antis wrote:
Hey there, Sid! Good to see the old guard is still around =) What do you think of this?

I think it needs Pyrohemia.

Antis wrote:
It's a damn shame. I, too, am constantly looking for a place for Fireheart. It's kinda ridiculous—a 4/4 for four with that ability and to this day, I haven't found a home for it. I would play it in Rakdos, Lord of Riots, but it's in a totally awful place on the mana curve for that deck. Damn foil copy always tempting me when I'm combing through my collection! :D I'm sure you have cards like that, too.

I run it in my Brion Stoutarm deck. The other night I gave it Illusionist's Bracers and then activated it 5 times. Good stuff.

In this deck, though, you're right that the lands deal the damage, and even if the lands were red, they aren't under your control, so it still wouldn't work.

_________________
"The President's job - and if someone sufficiently vain and stupid is picked he won't realize this - is not to wield power, but to draw attention away from it." -- Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide tot he Galaxy Radio Transcripts predicting the future.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Two more on the house! — Torbran, the Punisher
AgePosted: 2019-Nov-13 4:42 pm 

Joined: 2012-Oct-24 8:05 pm
Age: Drake
Even cards that are still worded "n damage for each" like Blood Oath only deal damage once to each recipient. To be separate instances of damage, they have to be separate instructions, or separate spells/abilities.

Also, Power Surge is very bad since the elimination of mana burn because everyone can just tap out on the end step before their turn.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Two more on the house! — Torbran, the Punisher
AgePosted: 2019-Nov-13 6:40 pm 
User avatar

Joined: 2011-Nov-16 1:14 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Prague, Heart of Europe
Panphage wrote:
Comeuppance fueled by damage from Manabarbs and his own Dictate of the Twin Gods
:shock: :shock: :shock:
Ok, I'm gonna have to watch out for that one. Come to think of it, though, I don't think I've seen anybody play Comeuppance in my group except me in Ephara. Strange, given how bonkers that card is.

Sid the Chicken wrote:
I think it needs Pyrohemia.
Word.

NMS wrote:
Also, Power Surge is very bad since the elimination of mana burn because everyone can just tap out on the end step before their turn.
Not necessarily, I would think a tapped-out opponent is a desirable thing, no?

_________________
I could be wrong. I'm just not in the mood.
tempesteye wrote:
In my early teens I was a Timmy.
In my late teens I was a Spike.
In my 20's I was a Johnny.
Now, I just like to play.
'Active decks' list here.
Currently hiring servants for my palace, made from my own walls of text.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Two more on the house! — Torbran, the Punisher
AgePosted: 2019-Nov-14 2:11 am 
User avatar

Joined: 2012-Nov-27 4:39 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Midgard
NMS wrote:
Also, Power Surge is very bad since the elimination of mana burn because everyone can just tap out on the end step before their turn.

Either hold up 2 mana for your Counterspell or instant speed removal and take 4 damage, or tap out and leave all of my stuff alone on my turn. Seems like a possibly great tradeoff to me. And somebody purposefully taking the damage telegraphs their next move. The card is definitely not "very bad" in the context of Torbran.

Still looking at other options--how do you feel about Flameblade Angel? I think maybe the downside is only that 6 CMC.

Other than maybe worrying about having enough card draw, I'm not immediately seeing any graveyard hate in here. Might be good to include one just in case, unless your group isn't taking advantage of it.

_________________
Current:
Decklists are posted here. They can all be found in the Decklist Forum.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Two more on the house! — Torbran, the Punisher
AgePosted: 2019-Nov-14 2:58 am 

Joined: 2010-Dec-14 4:04 pm
Age: Dragon
Location: Boston, MA
Segrus wrote:
NMS wrote:
Also, Power Surge is very bad since the elimination of mana burn because everyone can just tap out on the end step before their turn.

Either hold up 2 mana for your Counterspell or instant speed removal and take 4 damage, or tap out and leave all of my stuff alone on my turn. Seems like a possibly great tradeoff to me. And somebody purposefully taking the damage telegraphs their next move. The card is definitely not "very bad" in the context of Torbran.

Unfortunately they can hold up the 2 mana all the way until end of turn of the player before them and still take no damage. Unlike Citadel of Pain, they don't have to tap the lands until right before their turn to get around this card. The penalty for doing that used to be mana burn, but now there isn't one.

_________________
Sygg, River Cutthroat: Ninjas, Rogues, Ophidians
Rosheen Meanderer: Hydras
Sapling of Colfenor: Toughness > Power
Riku: Pump Spells
Teneb: Life Manipulation
Kiki-Jiki: Big Red
Geth: Nim
Kodama of the North Tree: Hard Mode Voltron
Nin: Elementals
Sram: Jankstorm
Zur: Zombies
Rhys the Redeemed: Aura Voltron
Chandra, Fire of Kaladesh: Chandras
Ojutai, Soul of Winter: Tap Out Control
Alesha: Allies
Inalla: Treasures
Vial Smasher: Lava Axes
Atraxa: Counterless Keywords
Ludevic and Tymna: Curses


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Two more on the house! — Torbran, the Punisher
AgePosted: 2019-Nov-14 3:18 am 
User avatar

Joined: 2011-Nov-16 1:14 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Prague, Heart of Europe
Ah, dammit, you're right. Oh well.

Flameblade Angel sound nice. I think I have it in my file somewhere. Thanks!

What stage are your Torbran thoughts in ATM, Segrus? :D

_________________
I could be wrong. I'm just not in the mood.
tempesteye wrote:
In my early teens I was a Timmy.
In my late teens I was a Spike.
In my 20's I was a Johnny.
Now, I just like to play.
'Active decks' list here.
Currently hiring servants for my palace, made from my own walls of text.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Two more on the house! — Torbran, the Punisher
AgePosted: 2019-Nov-14 3:25 am 
User avatar

Joined: 2012-Nov-27 4:39 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Midgard
Coco wrote:
Unfortunately they can hold up the 2 mana all the way until end of turn of the player before them and still take no damage. Unlike Citadel of Pain, they don't have to tap the lands until right before their turn to get around this card. The penalty for doing that used to be mana burn, but now there isn't one.

I suppose that's true. Although with this and Manabarbs out, you go full suicide and everybody will start taking a Lightning Bolt to the face for every land they control (well, not quite, but still).

What stage of Torbran am I at? I still have to go through all of my commons and uncommons. Since I'm also pulling cards for Grixmas and a different deck based around body horror, it's taking awhile. Something control/punisher based seems to be where I'm leaning.

_________________
Current:
Decklists are posted here. They can all be found in the Decklist Forum.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Two more on the house! — Torbran, the Punisher
AgePosted: 2019-Nov-14 11:00 am 
User avatar

Joined: 2009-Aug-20 7:49 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Hampshire
Antis wrote:
I don't think I've seen anybody play Comeuppance in my group except me in Ephara. Strange, given how bonkers that card is.

I've had a similar experience - I run it in my Triad of Fates deck, for theme as much as anything else, and I'm the only person locally I've seen use it, even though it's often a total beating when I cast it - I've straight-up won a game because someone tried to burn out the table with a giant Comet Storm and I had 4 mana up.

_________________
"The President's job - and if someone sufficiently vain and stupid is picked he won't realize this - is not to wield power, but to draw attention away from it." -- Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide tot he Galaxy Radio Transcripts predicting the future.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Two more on the house! — Torbran, the Punisher
AgePosted: 2019-Nov-15 5:00 am 

Joined: 2012-Oct-24 8:05 pm
Age: Drake
Segrus wrote:
Coco wrote:
Unfortunately they can hold up the 2 mana all the way until end of turn of the player before them and still take no damage. Unlike Citadel of Pain, they don't have to tap the lands until right before their turn to get around this card. The penalty for doing that used to be mana burn, but now there isn't one.

I suppose that's true. Although with this and Manabarbs out, you go full suicide and everybody will start taking a Lightning Bolt to the face for every land they control (well, not quite, but still).

No, because it's a single instance of damage, so they'll only take n + 2 with Torbran out if they don't tap any lands, and somewhere in between that and 3n if they tap some.

I guess Power Surge does also add a bit of value when combined with Price of Glory, since anyone who leaves up mana has to commit to either taking damage or losing lands. But it still doesn't seem worth running to me.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Two more on the house! — Torbran, the Punisher
AgePosted: 2019-Nov-15 7:50 am 
User avatar

Joined: 2011-Nov-16 1:14 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Prague, Heart of Europe
Guys, guys! Have you ever had that moment when you talk to the other players right before a game, look at your commanders and say "Hey, you know what would be really fun?" and then that exact thing actually happens? Well, I just did:

Two Torbran decks, two copies of Manabarbs, right from the start. It cost the poor bastard between us 26 life to cast his Zur. He cast him, equipped the boots, found an enchantment...and then I cast Anger of the Gods and killed both Zur and the other Torbran, while mine survived. Neither of them recovered and the fourth player wasn't too much of a threat, either.

BEST. GAME. EVER! :D :D :D

_________________
I could be wrong. I'm just not in the mood.
tempesteye wrote:
In my early teens I was a Timmy.
In my late teens I was a Spike.
In my 20's I was a Johnny.
Now, I just like to play.
'Active decks' list here.
Currently hiring servants for my palace, made from my own walls of text.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Two more on the house! — Torbran, the Punisher
AgePosted: 2019-Nov-15 8:09 am 

Joined: 2019-Mar-15 1:06 pm
Age: Wyvern
Sid the Chicken wrote:
Antis wrote:
I don't think I've seen anybody play Comeuppance in my group except me in Ephara. Strange, given how bonkers that card is.

I've had a similar experience - I run it in my Triad of Fates deck, for theme as much as anything else, and I'm the only person locally I've seen use it, even though it's often a total beating when I cast it - I've straight-up won a game because someone tried to burn out the table with a giant Comet Storm and I had 4 mana up.


Yeah, I love Comeuppance. I've won games with it more than a few times because people aren't used to seeing it. It's one of the more underrated cards from the Commander precons.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Two more on the house! — Torbran, the Punisher
AgePosted: 2019-Nov-15 9:50 am 
User avatar

Joined: 2012-Nov-27 4:39 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Midgard
NMS wrote:
No, because it's a single instance of damage, so they'll only take n + 2 with Torbran out if they don't tap any lands, and somewhere in between that and 3n if they tap some.

I know, that's why I added the "well, not quite, but still."

There's a possible place for the card with the right setup in a particularly jank deck. That's definitely the only application here.

Antis wrote:
Guys, guys! Have you ever had that moment when you talk to the other players right before a game, look at your commanders and say "Hey, you know what would be really fun?" and then that exact thing actually happens? Well, I just did:

Two Torbran decks, two copies of Manabarbs, right from the start. It cost the poor bastard between us 26 life to cast his Zur. He cast him, equipped the boots, found an enchantment...and then I cast Anger of the Gods and killed both Zur and the other Torbran, while mine survived. Neither of them recovered and the fourth player wasn't too much of a threat, either.

BEST. GAME. EVER! :D :D :D

Sounds like a pretty exciting game. Probably pretty quick game too, with as much damage it seems like was getting slung around haha. I think maybe I've finally finished pulling possible cards for a build, which means I have about 500 cards sitting on my table currently. Oof.

A couple of the cards I'm interested in seeing how viable they might be is Scalding Salamander and Subterranean Spirit.

Also, something I ran into while looking at different stuff, be careful of damage doublers with Torbran. Since both damage doublers and Torbran are replacement effects, opponents are the ones who get to choose the order in which they apply (since they are the ones being affected by the damage). So they can double the damage before applying the +2.

_________________
Current:
Decklists are posted here. They can all be found in the Decklist Forum.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Two more on the house! — Torbran, the Punisher
AgePosted: 2019-Nov-15 7:51 pm 
User avatar

Joined: 2011-Nov-16 1:14 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Prague, Heart of Europe
Yeah, we were like "Let's do one quick insane game with two dwarves, then play a normal one." ^_^

I know about the doubling interaction, came across it, too. It's a bit of a bummer, but hey, you'll be screwing your opponents up enough as it is ;)

_________________
I could be wrong. I'm just not in the mood.
tempesteye wrote:
In my early teens I was a Timmy.
In my late teens I was a Spike.
In my 20's I was a Johnny.
Now, I just like to play.
'Active decks' list here.
Currently hiring servants for my palace, made from my own walls of text.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Two more on the house! — Torbran, the Punisher
AgePosted: 2019-Nov-16 6:11 am 
User avatar

Joined: 2014-Jul-28 8:30 am
Age: Dragon
Would Torban be able to helm mono-red storm? Grapeshots becoming Lightning Bolts seems spicy.

_________________
specter404 wrote:
Basically, when it comes to commander, I want you to stab me through the heart, not cut off my balls.

Gath Immortal wrote:
Twenty Kavus and a Dream is not a legacy deck.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 32 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 39 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: