Login | Register


All times are UTC - 7 hours


It is currently 2019-Dec-11 9:42 pm




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 54 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Why do people play Monocolor? (Command Zone Rant...)
AgePosted: 2019-Nov-21 8:37 am 
User avatar

Joined: 2010-Jul-18 9:59 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Oh, oops, yeah Decree of Pain is a terrible example lol. My bad.

_________________
"Degenerate, unfun decks generally come from degenerate, unfun players in my experience." - Cthulus Thrall

"- if this spell is played ten times in a given game then I suggest you warm up the tar and pluck some chickens" - tarnar

The internet's great at making noise, and poor at operating pants. There's gonna be half-dressed mobs screeching half-assed arguments for the rest of the 21st century - Kemev


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why do people play Monocolor? (Command Zone Rant...)
AgePosted: 2019-Nov-21 9:40 am 
User avatar

Joined: 2011-Nov-16 1:14 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Prague, Heart of Europe
Sid the Chicken wrote:
Inkeyes22 wrote:
I am not saying W is bad...

You kind of are. And so is Antis, and so is Viperion, and so are the Command Zone guys...
"Bad" is a terribly vague word to base a conversation on. Again, what I said is that white is at a disadvantage. That doesn't mean bad, it means there is an extra challenge to building a successful mono-white deck, and by "successful" I mean percentage of wins. Not everybody cares about that. Some people just love white. Some people use the fact that they're not the biggest threat at the table for politics. Some people compensate by making their mono-white decks a little more competitive than the rest of the group.

Point is, nobody is saying mono-white is unplayable. Saying that would require mentally blacking out all the years I've played Commander. Heck, right now, we have a new guy in our group who has Odric, Lunarch Marshal among his decks and it's one of the most interesting decks I've seen in a while.

_________________
I could be wrong. I'm just not in the mood.
tempesteye wrote:
In my early teens I was a Timmy.
In my late teens I was a Spike.
In my 20's I was a Johnny.
Now, I just like to play.
'Active decks' list here.
Currently hiring servants for my palace, made from my own walls of text.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why do people play Monocolor? (Command Zone Rant...)
AgePosted: 2019-Nov-21 10:30 am 
User avatar

Joined: 2009-Aug-20 7:49 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Hampshire
Dee123 wrote:
I guess what I am not sure about on the concept of card advantage is do we have to draw 1 card or get 1 card?

Card advantage is about having more cards than your opponent, either by drawing/recurring more of yours or denying them to your opponents. Spending 1 card to counter more than 1 for your opposition. Obviously this becomes more difficult in multiplayer. In 1 v 1 magic, if you go to put an aura on your creature and I Lightning Bolt it in response, I have gained card advantage - you send 2 cards to the graveyard, I send 1. But if there is a third player, they are up 3 on us now, 1 card of mine and 2 of yours, so I haven't gained card advantage. That's where sweepers enter the picture. A well-timed wrath costs your opponents far more cards than it costs you.

_________________
"The President's job - and if someone sufficiently vain and stupid is picked he won't realize this - is not to wield power, but to draw attention away from it." -- Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide tot he Galaxy Radio Transcripts predicting the future.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why do people play Monocolor? (Command Zone Rant...)
AgePosted: 2019-Nov-25 1:43 am 
User avatar

Joined: 2011-Jan-16 5:36 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Toronto, ON
I'll go ahead and say it. Monowhite is Bad. This is coming from a person with a monowhite deck.

But, I think we really need to unpack what 'bad' means in this context. I would venture 'is worse than any other colour combination except colourless in terms of generating resources like card or tempo advantages', is a good definition of 'bad', since those features tend to be what win games of EDH.

Now, do I think 'monowhite is bad' means you shouldn't play it? No. Does it mean you can't have fun with it? Also no. Whether or not monowhite is bad or not isn't really all that important for typical games of EDH.

A colour is going to have to be worse than the others, or all the colours would have to be (more) symmetrical, (and that would be boring and pointless). Could monowhite be better? Yeah, I hold out hope that R&D will find some design space that can give white something to do other than exiling artifacts and enchantments.

In terms of existing design space to be leveraged, they need to be more ambitious with cards they print that add 'rules' to the game (the latest being Hushbringer and Deafening Silence). Every once in a while, they make a great new rules card (Linvala, Keeper of Silence, Angel of Jubilation, Grand Abolisher), but most of them end up complete flops in Commander (like Spirit of the Labyrinth, Sanctum Prelate, Ashes of the Abhorrent).

_________________
Check out my old column, Generally Speaking, at CommanderCast.com
http://www.commandercast.com/category/a ... y-speaking

Follow me on Twitter: @generalspeak


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why do people play Monocolor? (Command Zone Rant...)
AgePosted: 2019-Nov-25 2:38 am 
User avatar

Joined: 2011-Nov-16 1:14 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Prague, Heart of Europe
Sinis wrote:
Every once in a while, they make a great new rules card, but most of them end up complete flops in Commander
I'd say that's because those cards are too narrow. Like, great, enjoy your Linvala, just here to say my Rakdos, Lord of Riots doesn't care. In addition to those cards, you'd need a bunch of tutors or, and here we go again, card draw to get the right answer at the right time.

_________________
I could be wrong. I'm just not in the mood.
tempesteye wrote:
In my early teens I was a Timmy.
In my late teens I was a Spike.
In my 20's I was a Johnny.
Now, I just like to play.
'Active decks' list here.
Currently hiring servants for my palace, made from my own walls of text.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why do people play Monocolor? (Command Zone Rant...)
AgePosted: 2019-Nov-25 4:26 am 
User avatar

Joined: 2011-Jan-16 5:36 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Toronto, ON
Antis wrote:
Sinis wrote:
Every once in a while, they make a great new rules card, but most of them end up complete flops in Commander
I'd say that's because those cards are too narrow. Like, great, enjoy your Linvala, just here to say my Rakdos, Lord of Riots doesn't care. In addition to those cards, you'd need a bunch of tutors or, and here we go again, card draw to get the right answer at the right time.

I think it's less that their narrow, and more that they're ineffective in the format because a) singleton generally means you'll have more than just one set of tactics in your deck, and b) good luck drawing your narrow hate card.

Like, white would be better if they printed more anti-search than just reprinting Aven Mindcensor and the two editions of Leonin Arbiter. Shutting down land search in the early game when players are ramping is a big deal, but, good luck drawing either of those in your first 10-12 cards. (Play one land a turn like a normal wizard!)

Leonin arbiter is especially criminal; that 2 mana means basically nothing later.

_________________
Check out my old column, Generally Speaking, at CommanderCast.com
http://www.commandercast.com/category/a ... y-speaking

Follow me on Twitter: @generalspeak


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why do people play Monocolor? (Command Zone Rant...)
AgePosted: 2019-Nov-25 6:43 am 
User avatar

Joined: 2012-Dec-03 3:16 am
Age: Elder Dragon
So I kinda wonder if it is more a Green/Red are getting lots of cool toys and White/Blue are not? I know that they have long ago abandoned the "spells are good creatures suck" mentality and so maybe it is just an extension of that?

_________________
Shabbaman wrote:
The usual answer is "the social contract", but I guess that is not what you are looking for. Try house rules.


With perfect mana, reasonable removal, disruption, and card advantage, we're back to pitchforks and torches. And it's about to get worse for those who do not enjoy the game as Richard Garfield intended, playing as few win conditions as possible and prompting concession after all hopes (and spells) are lost. - Shaheen Soorani


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why do people play Monocolor? (Command Zone Rant...)
AgePosted: 2019-Nov-25 3:44 pm 
User avatar

Joined: 2008-Feb-29 5:57 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Duvall, WA
Sinis wrote:
but most of them end up complete flops in Commander (like Spirit of the Labyrinth


i feel like spirit of the laberynt is kind of a baller no one notices. Mono white already sucks at draw, so even the playing field


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why do people play Monocolor? (Command Zone Rant...)
AgePosted: 2019-Nov-26 1:25 am 
User avatar

Joined: 2011-Jan-16 5:36 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Toronto, ON
Shoe wrote:
Sinis wrote:
but most of them end up complete flops in Commander (like Spirit of the Labyrinth


i feel like spirit of the laberynt is kind of a baller no one notices. Mono white already sucks at draw, so even the playing field

I've never had it do anything (and I really wanted it to; I bought a playset of it when Born of the Gods came out). The problem is that people just remove it with its paltry 1 toughness when they're about to leverage a draw spell. It's rare for people to suffer losses from automated draw engines (like Phyrexian Arena) while they pray for removal. It's pretty tragic that Staff of Nin handily removes Spirit so its controller can just keep picking up cards.

To make matters worse, it does nothing to not-quite-draw spells like Fact or Fiction, Dig Through Time, etc.

If we want to talk options in white, I think Alms Collector is underplayed.

I've had some success with Notion Thief, who has the virtue of being Flashed in to shut down steal big draws when they're about to happen. Oh, and isn't even remotely symmetrical; a Notion Thief player can continue to draw to their heart's content without worry.

_________________
Check out my old column, Generally Speaking, at CommanderCast.com
http://www.commandercast.com/category/a ... y-speaking

Follow me on Twitter: @generalspeak


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 54 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4

All times are UTC - 7 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 19 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: