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 Post subject: Time Vault - Now Twiddle and Key Friendly....
AgePosted: 2008-Sep-24 11:10 am 
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Joined: 2008-May-04 1:02 am
Age: Dragon
Location: Orlando, FL
http://wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Artic ... her/092408

New Oracle text:
Time Vault comes into play tapped.
Time Vault doesn't untap during your untap step.
If you would begin your turn while Time Vault is tapped, you may skip that turn instead. If you do, untap Time Vault.
{oT}: Take an extra turn after this one.



Are we banning the shit out of this? or should I buy one, and put it in every deck I run?

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AgePosted: 2008-Sep-24 11:31 am 

Joined: 2007-Jun-04 6:34 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Gainsville, FL
Geo said that if this happened it would probably get the ban. Seeing as they cost quite a bit, I really wouldn't run out and buy a bunch; that would be a really risky investment.

At least it doesn't combo with Lodestone Myr. This wasn't the way I expected them to template the wording; it's kinda clever.

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AgePosted: 2008-Sep-24 2:48 pm 

Joined: 2008-Jan-25 8:26 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Calgary
That templating is absolutely bizarre. I expected it to get a wording similar to the current Mana Vault (an upkeep trigger). In fact, I'm fairly sure a lot of people expected the Mana Vault template.

I guess it follows something I read once from Wizards: They don't like that you can pay a cost with something you don't have yet, such as a turn you haven't taken yet. Being able to untap it by skipping the turn you would take follows that logic.

I expect the secondary market value of these to go back to Flame Fusillade levels and we're almost guaranteed to have it be banned in EDH. If you don't play Vintage then don't buy one of these.

..I still wish I'd bought one when the Fusillade fiasco happened. The Rings of Brightearth & Transreliquant combos were neat. Now I'll never be able to afford one.


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AgePosted: 2008-Sep-24 2:59 pm 
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Joined: 2008-May-04 1:02 am
Age: Dragon
Location: Orlando, FL
tarnar wrote:
I expect the secondary market value of these to go back to Flame Fusillade levels and we're almost guaranteed to have it be banned in EDH. If you don't play Vintage then don't buy one of these.

Flame Fusillade = 50 cents?

tarnar wrote:
..I still wish I'd bought one when the Fusillade fiasco happened. The Rings of Brightearth & Transreliquant combos were neat. Now I'll never be able to afford one.


Do share, I definitely missed this fiasco

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 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2008-Sep-24 3:13 pm 

Joined: 2008-Jan-25 8:26 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Calgary
The fiasco was back when Time Vault said the following:

Skip your next turn: Untap Time Vault.

The power-level errata had turned Time Vault into a two card combo when you used Flame Fusillade to give it "Tap: Deal 1 damage to target creature or player"

So they errata'ed it *AGAIN* and everyone that bought Time Vaults (as they were briefly playable) found themselves holding onto less-than-great cards.


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 Post subject: Re: Time Vault - Now Twiddle and Key Friendly....
AgePosted: 2008-Sep-24 3:44 pm 
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urielxvi wrote:
Are we banning the shit out of this? or should I buy one, and put it in every deck I run?


Neither. You should buy one, but only put it in your blue decks.

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 Post subject: Re: Time Vault - Now Twiddle and Key Friendly....
AgePosted: 2008-Sep-24 6:24 pm 
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Joined: 2008-May-04 1:02 am
Age: Dragon
Location: Orlando, FL
Ban Ki-moon wrote:
urielxvi wrote:
Are we banning the shit out of this? or should I buy one, and put it in every deck I run?


Neither. You should buy one, but only put it in your blue decks.


But but voltaic key!

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AgePosted: 2008-Sep-24 10:21 pm 

Joined: 2008-Sep-21 11:51 am
Age: Elder Dragon
:cry: mind over matter

of course it'd be funny as all get out if you happened to have a magus of the unseen out ..


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AgePosted: 2008-Sep-24 11:52 pm 

Joined: 2007-Jun-04 6:34 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Gainsville, FL
odit wrote:
:cry: mind over matter

of course it'd be funny as all get out if you happened to have a magus of the unseen out ..



rofl, what a nutpunch magus is!

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 Post subject: Re: Time Vault - Now Twiddle and Key Friendly....
AgePosted: 2008-Sep-26 11:32 pm 

Joined: 2008-Mar-24 3:27 pm
Age: Drake
Location: UCLA
urielxvi wrote:
http://wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/other/092408

Are we banning the shit out of this? or should I buy one, and put it in every deck I run?


The argument for it's banning (or at least one of them) was a deck I made at the bottom of this post (http://edh.truespace.ca/EDH_Forum/viewt ... 05&start=0)...

It goldfishes on turn 4 (on the average), against any number of players. Basically, there are a ton of "untap once a turn" permanents, and if you team those up with "untap this turn" instant/sorcery spells and tutor effects, you win very quickly (barring disruption or instant speed removal). Since many of EDH decks are just ramping up their mana on turn 4, this may be too powerful.

I don't think Time Vault is ridiculous strong in every deck, it needs a deck designed around it. Spending two cards to take an extra turn is good but not outrageous, doing it every turn is where it goes broken. Especially terrible is if you draw Twiddle without Time Vault.


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AgePosted: 2008-Sep-27 12:18 am 

Joined: 2007-Jun-04 6:34 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Gainsville, FL
If anywhere, I'd put it in my Sisay deck with my Seedborn Muse and Awakening. Mmmm.

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 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2008-Oct-04 11:58 pm 

Joined: 2008-Jan-07 7:53 pm
Age: Hatchling
So, Time Vault for sure gets banned because of Tezzeret, right?


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 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2008-Oct-05 12:47 am 
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Time Vault gets banned imho.


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AgePosted: 2008-Oct-05 8:09 am 
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Joined: 2007-Sep-10 2:51 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Rittman, OH USA
I think it should certainly be banned.
Although I can't say it wouldn't be fun in Karn decks :D
Hello Voltaic Key, Clock of Omens, Galvanic Key, and Voltaic Construct while Karn has it animated! :D

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AgePosted: 2008-Oct-05 1:00 pm 
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Joined: 2008-Apr-15 9:42 am
Age: Drake
Location: Waterloo, ON
I don't know if it's bannable...
It seems good, but the Tezzeret combo can be easily negated in a group game with combat damage, and artifact removal is something that every deck needs.
Not to mention the potential fun of a playgroup designing decks with Magus of the Unseen just to kick your ass for using the combo.

I believe that it should be on a "wait and see" basis....

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