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 Post subject: Argument for Painter's Servant.
AgePosted: 2010-Dec-16 12:02 pm 

Joined: 2010-Nov-16 6:55 am
Age: Wyvern
When I first started playing EDH, I used painter's servant in my decks. It wasn't for the grindstone combo, or the iona lock out. It was for the wacky stuff it interacted with, allowing for mono-green counters, massive lifegain boardwipes, off-color vindicates, and really odd kill spells. My playgroup didn't realize it was banned because it simply wasn't a problem. Lately I have been looking at the banned list more and more, feeling that even the Iona lock wasn't any worse than the erayo lock. This only leaves the grindstone combo. I would like the RC to reconsider their ban on PS. Unlike Staff, PS has plenty of other fun interactions which don't revolve around an infinite combo.


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 Post subject: Re: Argument for Painter's Servant.
AgePosted: 2010-Dec-16 12:12 pm 
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Joined: 2006-May-09 4:17 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Calgary, AB
If no one in your group has a problem with you playing Painter's Servant, then just play it :)

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 Post subject: Re: Argument for Painter's Servant.
AgePosted: 2010-Dec-16 12:18 pm 
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Joined: 2009-Apr-16 9:16 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Regina, SK
Banning Painter's Servant was one move that I did not agree with at all. The Painter's Servant/Iona lock was only a big problem because of Tooth and Nail, but if one of them had to go, Iona should have been the one. Even by herself, she's a terrible card that shouldn't see play in a format like EDH. Painter's Servant was chosen instead because he was the engine, but I don't think the loss of his many other unique and fun interactions was worth it.

Of course, what Genomancer said is 100% true. Go ahead and play on my friend!


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 Post subject: Re: Argument for Painter's Servant.
AgePosted: 2010-Dec-16 12:25 pm 
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Joined: 2009-Dec-22 7:59 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Brunswick
Its one of those cards that is banned because the majority of us can't play nice with it, like Staff of Domination. While it doesn't have as many degenerate uses as Staff, it has enough to realize that it can fuel too many unfun interactions. Whether its something obvious like Iona lock, or subtle like allowing Eastern Paladin to destroy anything. Even the "wacky" interaction you listed show how big a power increase Painter's Servant can give a deck.

Genomancer wrote:
If no one in your group has a problem with you playing Painter's Servant, then just play it :)
I second this though.

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 Post subject: Re: Argument for Painter's Servant.
AgePosted: 2010-Dec-16 1:56 pm 
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Joined: 2009-Jul-09 11:26 am
Age: Drake
Location: Cookeville, TN.
Stardust wrote:
Banning Painter's Servant was one move that I did not agree with at all. The Painter's Servant/Iona lock was only a big problem because of Tooth and Nail, but if one of them had to go, Iona should have been the one. Even by herself, she's a terrible card that shouldn't see play in a format like EDH. Painter's Servant was chosen instead because he was the engine, but I don't think the loss of his many other unique and fun interactions was worth it.

Of course, what Genomancer said is 100% true. Go ahead and play on my friend!



LOLWUT you obviously never seen her played as a General in MWC. she locks the most popular color out on the table, you're sitting with 3 white players, name white and giggle. alot of people forget she says Opponent in her lockout ability.

Painter's servant fuels alot of incidential interactions, woo your force of will is green, and because these interactions have no real game bearing (because it only adds a color, not replace) the only time Painter's Servant was being used was to form a non-win lock with Iona, or a instant full mill win with grindstone. so the easy RC choice in this case was kill a otherwise useless card that only really do 2 degenerate things or a countless of snicker-worthy color based injokes.

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 Post subject: Re: Argument for Painter's Servant.
AgePosted: 2010-Dec-16 3:58 pm 
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Joined: 2009-Apr-16 9:16 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Regina, SK
LOLWUT you obviously are someone I'd rather avoid playing EDH with. Iona is not a fun card, so it shouldn't see play in a casual format like EDH. I suppose I should insert the obligatory IMHO here. <(' '<) (>' ')> \(^^)/

Painter's Servant is far from useless outside those two combos. The OP named a few uses, but you might appreciate it's use with Teysa more (you know, since it's infinite).

/flame


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 Post subject: Re: Argument for Painter's Servant.
AgePosted: 2010-Dec-16 4:41 pm 

Joined: 2008-Aug-02 10:17 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Stardust wrote:
Banning Painter's Servant was one move that I did not agree with at all. The Painter's Servant/Iona lock was only a big problem because of Tooth and Nail, but if one of them had to go, Iona should have been the one. Even by herself, she's a terrible card that shouldn't see play in a format like EDH. Painter's Servant was chosen instead because he was the engine, but I don't think the loss of his many other unique and fun interactions was worth it.


QFT!

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 Post subject: Re: Argument for Painter's Servant.
AgePosted: 2010-Dec-16 4:49 pm 
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Joined: 2009-Sep-30 4:57 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
I wanted to make a Jaya Ballard, Task Mage deck, but then servant got banned. I understand the reason why because as fun as it could be it led to some unfun combos (ie Iona lock). I even got the sexy foil of her (the media insert one). God I love the way that foil looks.

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 Post subject: Re: Argument for Painter's Servant.
AgePosted: 2010-Dec-16 8:16 pm 

Joined: 2008-Nov-15 12:48 am
Age: Drake
Stardust wrote:
Banning Painter's Servant was one move that I did not agree with at all. The Painter's Servant/Iona lock was only a big problem because of Tooth and Nail, but if one of them had to go, Iona should have been the one.

Wouldn't that make Tooth and Nail the problem, then?

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 Post subject: Re: Argument for Painter's Servant.
AgePosted: 2010-Dec-16 8:27 pm 

Joined: 2010-Nov-16 6:55 am
Age: Wyvern
phatJacob07 wrote:
Stardust wrote:
Banning Painter's Servant was one move that I did not agree with at all. The Painter's Servant/Iona lock was only a big problem because of Tooth and Nail, but if one of them had to go, Iona should have been the one.

Wouldn't that make Tooth and Nail the problem, then?

It certainly would be the enabler in that case, but tooth and nail isn't an issue. I don't feel like iona + ps is more of an issue than any other combo (again, I point to erayo + lab).

@glass: I think you missed all the interactions I pointed out, and the teysa combo mentioned. Again, the amount of interactions outside of those two is significant enough that I feel it should not be banned simply because it's a piece of those two combos. How often do you get milled by grindstone? in multiplayer, how often does Iona lock out a table? In my experience, almost never. Oh and Iona as a general in MWC is funny. There are far better choices than her, because the main reason she was good with PS is that they can both be cheated into play.


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 Post subject: Re: Argument for Painter's Servant.
AgePosted: 2010-Dec-16 9:50 pm 

Joined: 2010-Nov-19 1:58 pm
Age: Drake
Kalterwolf wrote:
I wanted to make a Jaya Ballard, Task Mage deck, but then servant got banned. I understand the reason why because as fun as it could be it led to some unfun combos (ie Iona lock). I even got the sexy foil of her (the media insert one). God I love the way that foil looks.
You can still use Distorting Lens.


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 Post subject: Re: Argument for Painter's Servant.
AgePosted: 2010-Dec-17 4:52 am 
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Joined: 2008-Mar-24 12:14 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Oakland, CA
Telekinesis wrote:
You can still use Distorting Lens.

Note that the card, while no Painter's Servant, is not quite useless even if Jaya somehow gets permanently neutralized. You can Disarm Swords of _&_ in mid-combat, and decide what is and isn't Shriekmaw-able.


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 Post subject: Re: Argument for Painter's Servant.
AgePosted: 2010-Dec-18 10:19 am 

Joined: 2010-Mar-26 5:45 pm
Age: Dragon
Dude, I wanted to play painter's servant in my oona, queen of the fae deck. And I did for a while. (anyone want to guess whether I used it as a way of making sure that my oona was always giving me the full X faeries?)

But on the other hand, I can really see how it causes problems.

As for the erayo plus arcane lab soft lock-- you still have your manlands and other lands, and you still have your uncounterable spells and eldrazi triggers. I'm mostly thinking of artisan of kozilek as thats the most popular eldrazi in my area. Also, there are solid creatures with unearth etc. Erayo+ arcane lab is not terribly difficult to get around if its an issue. But the only way to get aroun iona is to discard your kederekt leviathan, then replay it. Then hope that someone has removal for iona followed by removal for painters servant-- or rather, you made sure to talk to people to make sure they do have instant speed removal/ counters saved up.


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 Post subject: Re: Argument for Painter's Servant.
AgePosted: 2010-Dec-18 11:31 am 

Joined: 2010-Nov-16 6:55 am
Age: Wyvern
My playgroup has currently unbanned PS and banned Iona and grindstone. Grindstone sees no play, outside of the combo, and Iona had recently began seeing no play as well. We currently have an oona deck in the works by a new player, who expressed his wish to see ps unbanned, as well as a jaya deck. Will update more as we play more.

Also, considering testing out kokusho as a card, still banned as a general.


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 Post subject: Re: Argument for Painter's Servant.
AgePosted: 2010-Dec-18 12:52 pm 
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Joined: 2008-Sep-15 10:38 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Portland, OR
"X card is banned" means, "Ask permission before playing X." Before starting a game, ask the people you're playing with, "I've got Painter's Servant in this deck, which I know is on the banned list, but I'm not playing either Iona or Grindstone. Are you all okay with that?" And unless they've got a particular hatred of the card (its interaction with Llawan can be annoying), you should be good to go. My friend's got a color hacking deck where Servant is an absolute necessity, so we don't have any problem with letting him play it.


Last edited by paperwarrior on 2011-Feb-16 9:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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