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 Post subject: Staff of Dominatrix
AgePosted: 2010-Sep-29 6:37 pm 

Joined: 2010-Sep-11 12:19 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
There is absolutely no reason to ban staff of dominatrix.
If people are too stupid to not blow it up with the absolute ungodly-number of destroy-artifact / exile-artifact effects, then they shouldn't be playing EDH in the first place.

Staff isn't overpowered, nor is it OP for being part of infinate mana/life/draw engine combos. No matter what, they will exist. If you're going to ban staff, ban everything related to it as, as well as other engine parts.
Puppet Strings
Voltaic Construct
Filigree Sages
Training Grounds
ect...


Stupid people not blowing up or saving a card to deal with Staff of Dominatrix is not a reason to ban it.

On a side note, unban bargin.


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 Post subject: Re: Staff of Dominatrix
AgePosted: 2010-Sep-29 7:10 pm 
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Joined: 2009-Dec-22 7:59 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Brunswick
Sure there are lots of infinite combos, but staff is everyone of those cards combined. It will make infinite mana, then draw your deck, tap all your opponents blockers, and even give you inifinite life if you feel like rubbing it in. You run the card purely so it can be abused, otherwise you may as well just run one of the cards you listed.

Yeah Bargin is not getting unbanned in a format with 40 life. Necropotence is arguable one of the best ways to draw cards ever printed, so being able to use the exact same card with 0 drawbacks is pretty powerful. Even at doubling the cost does not off-set how powerful the card is. The card's only purpose is to draw through your deck until you assemble your combo and win.

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 Post subject: Re: Staff of Dominatrix
AgePosted: 2010-Sep-29 7:13 pm 

Joined: 2010-Sep-11 12:19 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Boshea wrote:
Sure there are lots of infinite combos, but staff is everyone of those cards combined. It will make infinite mana, then draw your deck, tap all your opponents blockers, and even give you inifinite life if you feel like rubbing it in. You run the card purely so it can be abused, otherwise you may as well just run one of the cards you listed.

Yeah Bargin is not getting unbanned in a format with 40 life. Necropotence is arguable one of the best ways to draw cards ever printed, so being able to use the exact same card with 0 drawbacks is pretty powerful. Even at doubling the cost does not off-set how powerful the card is. The card's only purpose is to draw through your deck until you assemble your combo and win.

And Filgree Sages + Training Grounds + ...any artifact that adds at least 2 mana isn't the same thing? And easier to get. (lower cost, no staff activation costs, people dont see it and go hey staff..kill the player.)


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 Post subject: Re: Staff of Dominatrix
AgePosted: 2010-Sep-29 7:29 pm 
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Joined: 2009-Dec-22 7:59 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Brunswick
Staff only ever requires two cards to go infinite. Staff and a creature that can generate at least 5 mana by tapping.

Sages needs itself, Training Grounds, and something tapping for at least 2U. The need of colored mana greatly limits how easy the combo is to use, and how many decks can run it.

Voltaic Construct is an even harder combo to set up. It requires itself, something tapping for 3 mana, march of the machines, and possibly something to convert your mana source to an artifact if isn't already. Once again this combo is limited in the decks that can run it based on the need for colored mana.

Staff works in any deck that can produce a creature capable of tapping for at least 5 mana. Also unlike the other combos you listed this one also can draw you cards giving you all the fuel in the world to funnel your mana into. For your other combos to do this you'd need to toss in something like
Diviner's Wand so that you can draw through your deck for an answer. This adds yet another combo piece to the mix making it harder to assemble.

Staff is banned because 9/10 times it and a something tapping for 5 ends the game. There is a big difference between 2 cards doing that and 3 or more.

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Retired decks:
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Wort, Boggart Auntie-Goblin Shenanigans
Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer-I will Prevail


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 Post subject: Re: Staff of Dominatrix
AgePosted: 2010-Sep-29 7:40 pm 
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Joined: 2009-Jul-13 6:05 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Monmouth, OR
The actual reason Staff is banned is because it was literally used for nothing but infinite combos. 99.99% of the time when someone was playing Staff, they had a way to go infinite with it and then immediately end the game as a result.

It's the same reason why Protean Hulk, Dragon, and LED are banned. Virtually no one ever uses the cards "responsibly", and only for degenerate applications.

/devil's advocate

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 Post subject: Re: Staff of Dominatrix
AgePosted: 2010-Sep-29 10:15 pm 
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Joined: 2007-Mar-28 12:38 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Omaha
This is a joke, right?

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 Post subject: Re: Staff of Dominatrix
AgePosted: 2010-Sep-29 11:12 pm 

Joined: 2010-Sep-11 12:19 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Jeyal wrote:
This is a joke, right?

No, mostly serious.

I honestly don't comprehend how people who play EDH willingly let people sit with combo pieces, knowing the combo is there. Aside from U control, I eriously can't understand the lack of inteligent play concerning destruction of combo peices before the combo becomes active.


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 Post subject: Re: Staff of Dominatrix
AgePosted: 2010-Sep-29 11:15 pm 
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Joined: 2007-Sep-10 2:51 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Rittman, OH USA
lol, obvious troll is obvious

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 Post subject: Re: Staff of Dominatrix
AgePosted: 2010-Sep-29 11:19 pm 

Joined: 2010-Sep-11 12:19 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
yawg07 wrote:
lol, obvious troll is obvious

Yea, you are.


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 Post subject: Re: Staff of Dominatrix
AgePosted: 2010-Sep-29 11:28 pm 
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Joined: 2010-Jun-13 2:13 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Memphis, TN
Joz wrote:
yawg07 wrote:
lol, obvious troll is obvious

Yea, you are.
And witty, too!

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 Post subject: Re: Staff of Dominatrix
AgePosted: 2010-Sep-30 3:33 am 

Joined: 2009-May-05 9:45 pm
Age: Dragon
Location: Acworth, GA
Sad thing is, I honestly believe Joz is not intentionally trolling. After looking at a majority of his posts, they don't scream "troll," they scream "young mind with little experience." Now, I am not intending to insult, all though I am sure it will be taken as such. There are lots of reasons your posts give that vibe, such as you could just play with a small group and never branch out, or you just have the social skills of "Corky." Point being, people read you as a troll mostly because you come across with too much ego and too little understanding.

Point in case, you talk of holding answers to disrupt combos. Great, outside of countermagic, there is really only one way to stop an intelligent player comboing out with the staff, and that is to "K grip" it.

Oh, and Bargain, really? Have you ever played in a non-kitchen magic format with that card? I know EDH is casual, I actually approach it that way, unlike 80% of the people I know, including locally, on the net, and from major events. There are honestly few cards on the banned list that deserve it more than Bargain.

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 Post subject: Re: Staff of Dominatrix
AgePosted: 2010-Sep-30 4:45 am 
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Joined: 2010-Mar-03 10:07 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Buthrakaur wrote:
Oh, and Bargain, really? Have you ever played in a non-kitchen magic format with that card? I know EDH is casual, I actually approach it that way, unlike 80% of the people I know, including locally, on the net, and from major events. There are honestly few cards on the banned list that deserve it more than Bargain.


QFT. Even assuming no lifegain effects, I hear drawing 39 cards for 4BB is pretty good. (Remember Flores re: Pact of Negation: It doesn't matter if you lose the game next turn if you win the game THIS turn, which drawing that many cards gives you a pretty good chance of doing.) Adding any sort of lifegain just makes the card unfun, even boring:

"Draw down to 1 life, land drop, trigger Eternity Vessel with 40 counters?"
"End of your turn, draw down to one life, during my upkeep gain 39 life off Venser's Journal?"

Full Disclosure: I run the first of these combos off Necropotence in my Savra deck, and will probably run the second once I inevitably open 4 Journals in my box of Scars (awful card is awful). But Necro is a LOT less broken because it forces you to make a commitment during your turn to get full value.
Bargain is only 'worse' than Necro in that it costs twice as much, which in EDH is usually the same as 'strictly better' for a splashy effect like this.

OTOH: Suppression Field and/or Underworld Dreams when someone has Necro/Bargain out is pretty damn hilarious. "Nice strictly worse Greed you got there, guy."

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gaijinguy wrote:
As for blue- being boring/infuriating by crushing everyone else's fun until it assembles a cheeseball combo is pretty much what it DOES.


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 Post subject: Re: Staff of Dominatrix
AgePosted: 2010-Sep-30 5:03 am 
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Joined: 2009-Dec-22 7:59 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Brunswick
In a perfect world all cards die to removal, but EDH is definetly not a perfect world. The only reliable way to kill staff is with Krosan Grip, and you only get one of those. Even after destroying it, you'd need to remove the graveyard to make sure it can be brought back The other option is take away the staffs abilities via null rod or a similar effect which really only buys you time until somebody kills your null rod.

herodotusjr wrote:
Necropotence in my Savra deck, and will probably run the second once I inevitably open 4 Journals in my box of Scars (awful card is awful).

I'm expecting a set of Blackcleave Cliffs since I managed to get a playset already during pre-release. Same thing happened with Dragonskull Summits and M11.

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Kicking your teeth in is a valid strategy.
Current decks:
Radha, Heir to Keld-Super Elfball
Retired decks:
Scion, of the Ur-Dragon-Dragons, Dragons everywhere
Wort, Boggart Auntie-Goblin Shenanigans
Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer-I will Prevail


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 Post subject: Re: Staff of Dominatrix
AgePosted: 2010-Sep-30 8:17 am 
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Joined: 2008-Mar-24 12:14 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Oakland, CA
Joz wrote:
On a side note, unban bargin.

I wasn't 100% sure it was a trolling until I read this.
herodotusjr wrote:
Suppression Field and/or Underworld Dreams when someone has Necro/Bargain out is pretty damn hilarious.

Note that Underpants Dreams doesn't affect Necroimpotence because the cards aren't actually drawn.


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 Post subject: Re: Staff of Dominatrix
AgePosted: 2010-Sep-30 10:04 am 

Joined: 2010-Sep-11 12:19 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Buthrakaur wrote:
"young mind with little experience." .

I'm just going to go ahead and pretend your ignorance is is your excuse for assuming something in gross negligence.


As I've said, everyone is treating Staff as the problem. What if I replace staff with Pemmin's Aura or Freed from the Real, or the untap equipment? All three of those function in the same manner when it comes to puting them onto a mana generator. In fact, both enchantments allow faster and more efficient comboing then Staff , why aren't they banned?

Or is the only reason staff is banned is because of its non-untap abilities?

Now, I understand that a deck needs to run blue in order to use either aura, but the untap equipment (I forget its name at the moment,) is even more efficient then staff, it requires 3 instead of 4 mana to perpetuate the chain.


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