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 Post subject: Is aproach of the second sun a worthy wincon?
AgePosted: 2018-Nov-21 2:39 am 

Joined: 2017-Oct-19 12:02 am
Age: Drake
Hi, I have been playing a control deck for a while with good results.

I tried several wincons such as Felidar Sovereign and Test of endurance , both are great finishers but my playgroup dislike those so I toke them out of my deck.

My playgroup also dislikes infinite turns, etc.

Now my deck has some narrows wincons

1. Sanguine Bond + exquisite blood: because I have not tutors other than enlightened tutor I cant rely on this combo (by the way I never won with this)
2.Aetherflux Reservoir to the face (I have won a couple of games with this one without the help of Sydri, Galvanic Genius wich I have but have not drew in any of my games)
3. Luminarch ascension: I have never ever won with this either, was fun to play but wont last
4. Elspeth, sun's champion: never ever had more than 6 soldiers in the table before she died
5. My last and favourite wincon is having 50 cards in hand with venser's journal and sanguine bond and deleting one at a time (happen once)

All those wincons needs a lot of time, after I tok away test of endurance and Felidar sovereign I won more than 50% of the time but always at turn 15+ (20 or even more) because my wincons needs so much mana or so much life total or just so much time.

I always miss those two cards (felidar and the test) when is turn 15+ people are tired and I am against the last opponent knowing I am going to win because I have a soft lock but it will take some turns.

So I wonder (and this is the topic of the thread) is Approach of the second sun worth playing to end the game fast enought without being perceived as "unfair" like those two other insta-win cards?

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Playing:
Edgar Markov The current updated decklist is here
Oloro, Ageless ascetic The current updated decklist is here
Yennett, Cryptic Sovereign The current updated decklist is here
K'rrik, son of yawgmoth The current updated decklist is here


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 Post subject: Re: Is aproach of the second sun a worthy wincon?
AgePosted: 2018-Nov-21 8:05 am 

Joined: 2015-Jan-14 2:58 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Maybe? There’s actually less chance to interact with Approach than Test and Wincat, as it’s not a permanent. On the other hand you have several turns to see it coming. Personally, I can’t get Test or Wincat to stick these days. Don’t forget Test’s kindler, gentler cousin, Celestial Convergence

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Antis wrote:
I'm seriously suspicious of any card that makes Doubling Season look fair and reasonable.


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 Post subject: Re: Is aproach of the second sun a worthy wincon?
AgePosted: 2018-Nov-21 9:43 am 

Joined: 2010-Dec-14 4:04 pm
Age: Dragon
Location: Boston, MA
Spectrar Ghost wrote:

Man if you win with that without cheesing it with Solemnity, I would honestly say that nobody can get mad.

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 Post subject: Re: Is aproach of the second sun a worthy wincon?
AgePosted: 2018-Nov-21 9:56 pm 

Joined: 2017-Oct-19 12:02 am
Age: Drake
Coco wrote:
Spectrar Ghost wrote:

Man if you win with that without cheesing it with Solemnity, I would honestly say that nobody can get mad.


Agree.

I didn't knew the card anyway, I like it, seems fun but... unless used with solemnity, unlikly to happen


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 Post subject: Re: Is aproach of the second sun a worthy wincon?
AgePosted: 2018-Nov-21 11:44 pm 

Joined: 2015-Jan-14 2:58 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
alexev wrote:
Coco wrote:
Spectrar Ghost wrote:

Man if you win with that without cheesing it with Solemnity, I would honestly say that nobody can get mad.


Agree.

I didn't knew the card anyway, I like it, seems fun but... unless used with solemnity, unlikly to happen


Like I said earlier, I can’t get Wincat or Test to last a turn cycle reliably. If your opponents aren’t running enough removal to interact with them when they know they’re coming, Convergence isn’t that much of a stretch. These days all three are little more than decoys to draw removal off of Aetherflux Reservoir for me.

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Antis wrote:
I'm seriously suspicious of any card that makes Doubling Season look fair and reasonable.


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 Post subject: Re: Is aproach of the second sun a worthy wincon?
AgePosted: 2018-Nov-22 12:54 am 

Joined: 2017-Oct-19 12:02 am
Age: Drake
Spectrar Ghost wrote:

Like I said earlier, I can’t get Wincat or Test to last a turn cycle reliably. If your opponents aren’t running enough removal to interact with them when they know they’re coming, Convergence isn’t that much of a stretch. These days all three are little more than decoys to draw removal off of Aetherflux Reservoir for me.



Well, I have won with test, resolving it AEOT without a counter backup because everyone were tapped

My idea is not playing the card turn 7 and win against the other 3 ppl, but normally when I get 1on1 against the last opponente the endgame takes too much time and an insta finish would be nice.

Running wincat and test makes people focusing more hard in the task of lowering your life total, so if they know you have it, you can xpect 3 people attaking you evrry turn to get you HP low, meanwhile if you dont have it, then they will perceive the higer life total as a threat but not the #1 threat of the table.

without Sidry, the aetherflux needs you to be at a really high life total to insta win, if you use it when you are at 60 life to kill one opponent then you are at lethal range for many decks, so I never use it unless I am at 70+ unless I have one opponent left.

They know I run blood+bond so they have answers for that, those could be used also for test and wincat but why they would waste a card when they can prevent the effect just by hitting me every turn?

I thought about second sun because, I can cast it, then search it with mystical tutor, or just draw enought cards and cast it again, they can save their counters for that but they would not be "in a hurry" to keep my precious life total down

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Playing:
Edgar Markov The current updated decklist is here
Oloro, Ageless ascetic The current updated decklist is here
Yennett, Cryptic Sovereign The current updated decklist is here
K'rrik, son of yawgmoth The current updated decklist is here


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 Post subject: Re: Is aproach of the second sun a worthy wincon?
AgePosted: 2018-Nov-25 10:09 am 
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Joined: 2011-Feb-07 3:37 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Danbury, CT
alexev wrote:
Coco wrote:
Spectrar Ghost wrote:

Man if you win with that without cheesing it with Solemnity, I would honestly say that nobody can get mad.


Agree.

I didn't knew the card anyway, I like it, seems fun but... unless used with solemnity, unlikly to happen


Hell, even if you use it with Solemnity, you still gotta get it to your next upkeep.

...

I feel like all of the alt-win cards are a sort of "achievement unlocked" kind of moment. The first time you pull it off, it's kinda a neat moment worthy of a polite golf clap. After that, they're not as interesting. So in that sense, yeah, Approach is a fine win-con... but if you keep running it, it's gonna get old quick.

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 Post subject: Re: Is aproach of the second sun a worthy wincon?
AgePosted: 2019-Jan-04 11:57 am 

Joined: 2018-Oct-01 11:59 am
Age: Wyvern
Approach of the Second Sun is a good win-condition for you. Necropotence and Necrologia make it come back quickly. If you're looking to have fun, try playing it without extra draw because it paints a huge target on you while providing a long clock.

I'm sure you and your friends will find a game of archenemy fun. :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Is aproach of the second sun a worthy wincon?
AgePosted: 2019-Jan-25 11:31 pm 

Joined: 2017-Oct-19 12:02 am
Age: Drake
Well, I tried it out and it worked just fine

I played in a 5 man table last night and one of the games I won was because Approach of the second sun

Nobody (except for one player) considered it unfair or boring, it was not easy to do, I demanded patiente and taking risks

In the magical Christmas scenario you would need 16 mana and 2 cards to win a single turn so it doesn't seem unfair at all

Conclusion: is kind of clunky but it works, and except for the player who always complaint about any winning that does not include combat there were no bad feelings about the game.



The game
The game started with people attacking me first because of the life total (we had 3 aggro decks and another control in the table) but I manage to survive long enough to turn 10+

by turn 4 I got to make a statement playing Supreme Verdict because the aggro players were out of control and everyone attacked me.

By turn 6 I got in play Dawn of hope which was one of the other cards I was testing which seems was ment to be played in this deck.

The tokens served me well to chumpblock some big dudes and gave me some life back

By turn 8 I had Venser's journal and necropotence but because my life total was too low I drew only 16 cards at this time

In my next upkeep I gained the life back, I play Sanguine bond, I get 16 more cards out of necro and pass, people keep attacking me just as the start of the game, getting my life low, and In my next upkeep one of the opponents gets in 6 life because the drain life of bond, then I attacked him with the tokens that gave some life and he got at 2.

I counter a spell that would destroy everything I have with 5cmc (I cant remember the name, was the player playing rakdos a 4cmc sorcery that you choose a number and destroy everything the player has with that cmc and them you discard one player of all the cards of the same cmc)

Then, the control player uses Ugin, the spirit dragon to exile all my colored stuff

The next turn was draw go, and I got Venser's journal destroyed by other player

I had nothing in the table but lands, and I drew Approach of the second sun, I use 7 of my 8 manas to cast it, it resolves (I used Boseiju, who shelters all to be sure) and it went to the library 7th from top.

I had a triland in play untapped and Mystical tutor so my plan was AEOT casting tutor and winning, but then one player playing ezuri had a 1/1 token with a lot of counters and lethal damage (for me) I hope he attack someone else but he choose me, so I had to spend my remaining mana exiling the token with Swords to plowshares, the round continues, I got extra damage from the other 2 players and the control player plays void winnower, then it is my turn, I draw go

The turn pass, I got some extra damage, and before the control plaryers turns I cast the tutor (he was tapped out) and get approach to the top of my library.

He swing me for lethal but I had Hushwing Gryff so I block the fatty and survive, he passes, my turn I draw and cast Approach of the second sun and win

_________________
Playing:
Edgar Markov The current updated decklist is here
Oloro, Ageless ascetic The current updated decklist is here
Yennett, Cryptic Sovereign The current updated decklist is here
K'rrik, son of yawgmoth The current updated decklist is here


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