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 Post subject: 5 color guildmage tribal
AgePosted: 2018-Oct-19 2:10 am 

Joined: 2010-Sep-20 4:34 pm
Age: Drake
Location: Beaverton OR
Hi all,

Probably a really bad idea for a deck but it occured to me there is enough guild mages now to make a "tribal" deck out of them. Any thoughts? Do any of them work well together? Thanks.

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 Post subject: Re: 5 color guildmage tribal
AgePosted: 2018-Oct-19 2:30 pm 
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Joined: 2008-Mar-24 12:14 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Oakland, CA
There are 25 Ravnica Guildmages so far, along with (presumably) five more to come next set and five Mirage Guildmages. If you intend to play all of them, some will be pretty bad because they only interact with specific strategies that you probably can't fit into the rest of your deck (Duskmantle Guildmage, Vizkopa Guildmage) and some will be bad because they are just always bad (particularly the Mirage ones, as well as Izzet Guildmage, Orzhov Guildmage, Skarrg Guildmage).

If you are willing to loosen up your category to 'creatures with cool activated abilities which were printed in a cycle', you should look at the Invokers (particularly Dawnglare Invoker, Valakut Invoker, and Wildheart Invoker), the Witches of Shadowmoor (Inkfathom Witch has great political potential even when you can't make effective use of it for your own combat step), and the reboot of the Mirage Guildmages - the Invasions Apprentices and Masters. Actually the Invasions Apprentices were still about as bad as their predecessors, but the Masters were pretty cool. If you decide to mix and match, picking only the more powerful/synergistic of these rather than go for a full cycle of everything, you might actually have a reasonably powerful casual deck.

Support Cards - I think you definitely want mass vigilance in there somewhere, to allow any of the {T} Guildmages to still act as bodies without losing access to their abilities. I hate to say Reconnaissance because it's already in so many decks out there, but it is definitely the very best enabler of that sort. Oathsworn Giant is also pretty good. There are probably enough token generators among the Guildmages to throw in an Eldrazi Monument. Either half of Supply//Demand would probably be good, depending on the situation. Knight of New Alara and Vivid Revival are nice, and obviously you will have Guildmages' Forum. Maybe you could even fit in Pyroconvergence.


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 Post subject: Re: 5 color guildmage tribal
AgePosted: 2018-Oct-19 4:19 pm 
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Joined: 2011-Feb-07 3:37 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Danbury, CT
I don't think it's a bad idea at all. (I mean, yes, the Mirage guildmages are bad, but otherwise...)

I'm a little skeptical of the new tap: activate guildmages. The way I see the original cycle and the RTR guys is that almost all of them are potentially one-card wrecking crews if you can make enough mana. It's the big upside to having repeatable abilities.

There's also quite a few that play well with token/swarm strategies, so there's a lot to play around with from that angle.

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 Post subject: Re: 5 color guildmage tribal
AgePosted: 2018-Oct-19 11:55 pm 
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Joined: 2010-Dec-10 12:16 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Concur on the token strategy, as it gives you threats and blockers that don't endanger your guildmages. It's also a great place to (ab)use banding (like Baton of Morale) and niche combat helpers like Dolmen Gate. Banding on defense is so underestimated sine you only need one bander in a pool of 5+ blockers to allow you to control how combat damage is distributed (block many, lose one, kill fattie).

Kemev wrote:
I'm a little skeptical of the new tap: activate guildmages. The way I see the original cycle and the RTR guys is that almost all of them are potentially one-card wrecking crews if you can make enough mana. It's the big upside to having repeatable abilities.


It really would have been a great time to bring back the untap ability. If they has been T for the low mana cost and untap for the large one they could have been awesome.

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 Post subject: Re: 5 color guildmage tribal
AgePosted: 2018-Nov-06 2:36 pm 

Joined: 2010-Sep-20 4:34 pm
Age: Drake
Location: Beaverton OR
Hello!

I do apologize for forgetting I made this post, thank you both for replying. I appreciate the tips and thoughts on the deck concept. What could the deck actually win with though? I think infinate mana into one or more of they're abilities is a ok start. Them being 2/2 creatures makes combat damage unlikely. Maybe kromat as the general? Reaper king?

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 Post subject: Re: 5 color guildmage tribal
AgePosted: 2018-Nov-08 2:50 pm 
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Joined: 2011-Feb-07 3:37 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Danbury, CT
Don't forget that you can pump your team with cards like Selesnya Guildmage, so combat damage is probably viable.

For a general, I'd probably pick Horde of Notions. It's a strong body by itself, and a small elemental package would go well with the kinds of abilities your guildmages are best at (ie, Regal Force after you've made a bunch of tokens, Reveillark to recur guildmages, Flame-kin Zealot for hasty swarm assault, utility jerks like Shriekmaw and Bane of Progress to cover bases that the guildmages can't cover themselves...)

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 Post subject: Re: 5 color guildmage tribal
AgePosted: 2018-Nov-08 4:19 pm 
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Joined: 2018-Apr-23 7:47 am
Age: Hatchling
intreped wrote:
There are 25 Ravnica Guildmages so far, along with (presumably) five more to come next set and five Mirage Guildmages. If you intend to play all of them, some will be pretty bad because they only interact with specific strategies that you probably can't fit into the rest of your deck (Duskmantle Guildmage, Vizkopa Guildmage) and some will be bad because they are just always bad (particularly the Mirage ones, as well as Izzet Guildmage, Orzhov Guildmage, Skarrg Guildmage).


You are a fool if you think Skarrg Guildmage is bad.


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 Post subject: Re: 5 color guildmage tribal
AgePosted: 2018-Nov-09 2:44 am 
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Joined: 2008-Mar-24 12:14 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Oakland, CA
cows546 wrote:
You are a fool if you think Skarrg Guildmage is bad.

Hello, and welcome to the forums! Please forgive my unsolicited advice here - calling someone a fool is generally not a great way to introduce yourself. Hope you stick around.

Skarrg Guildmage compares poorly to so many cards: Tattermunge Witch, Arlinn Kord, Kamahl, Fist of Krosa, Baru, Fist of Krosa, Pathbreaker Ibex, Anax and Cymede, Nylea, God of the Hunt, Street Riot, Thunderfoot Baloth, and numerous single-use effects like Overwhelming Stampede and Craterhoof Behemoth and Decimator of the Provinces and Titanic Ultimatum. All of these provide not only trample but also extra damage, and a few of them provide it without spending extra mana every time you want trample. That said, if you are enjoying playing with Skarrg Guildmage, please continue to enjoy it! I play with many sub-optimal cards in my decks too; this format is not supposed to be about playing only the best cards.

toxicnecrotic wrote:
What could the deck actually win with though? I think infinate mana into one or more of they're abilities is a ok start. Them being 2/2 creatures makes combat damage unlikely. Maybe kromat as the general? Reaper king?

I don't really like infinite mana wins, but if your playgroup is fine with it, there are at least a few guildmages that can certainly win on their own, like Rakdos Guildmage, Sunhome Guildmage, and Vizkopa Guildmage. Dragonlord Dromoka or Grand Abolisher can even let you safely win with Dimir Guildmage forcing all of your opponents to draw themselves to death.

As for the General, I agree with what Kemev said, although for flavor reasons I think Cromat is the most appropriate choice as it is the closest thing to a 5-color Guildmage.


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 Post subject: Re: 5 color guildmage tribal
AgePosted: 2018-Nov-09 6:07 am 
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intreped wrote:
Skarrg Guildmage compares poorly to so many cards: Tattermunge Witch, Arlinn Kord, Kamahl, Fist of Krosa, Baru, Fist of Krosa, Pathbreaker Ibex, Anax and Cymede, Nylea, God of the Hunt, Street Riot, Thunderfoot Baloth, and numerous single-use effects like Overwhelming Stampede and Craterhoof Behemoth and Decimator of the Provinces and Titanic Ultimatum. All of these provide not only trample but also extra damage, and a few of them provide it without spending extra mana every time you want trample. That said, if you are enjoying playing with Skarrg Guildmage, please continue to enjoy it! I play with many sub-optimal cards in my decks too; this format is not supposed to be about playing only the best cards.


Of course Craterhoof Behemoth and Kamahl, Fist of Krosa are better than Skarrg Guildmage. They're rares, and Skarrg is uncommon. Also, they cost upwards of 6cmc so I'd hope they'd do something amazing. But none of the cards you mentioned do as much as Skarrg can for two mana as an uncommon. You completely ignored his ability to make a bunch of 4/4s out of your lands. You sure speak in a condescending tone for someone who's giving out bad advice.


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 Post subject: Re: 5 color guildmage tribal
AgePosted: 2018-Nov-09 7:24 am 
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Joined: 2008-Mar-24 12:14 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Oakland, CA
cows546 wrote:
They're rares, and Skarrg is uncommon.

When deciding what to put into a deck, this is usually not relevant to me. I only care whether I own an unused copy of this card, or not (and even that limitation is pretty loose because the vast majority of deck ideas I put together never even turn into real paper decks).

cows546 wrote:
none of the cards you mentioned do as much as Skarrg can for two mana

This is a fair point, Titanic Ultimatum costs 7 mana of specific colors and doesn't even fit into all decks that Guildmage could, due to W color identity. However, "for two mana" Guildmage does nothing at all, it is a grizzly bear. You need to invest 4 total mana into it before it gives trample, at which point it is tied for effect with Nylea and trailing a little behind Arlin and Tattermunge. Generally, I prefer to pay a little more mana up front for an effect than to pay a little bit every turn to continue that same effect, which is why I consider Street Riot 'better' than Skarrg Guildmage, but there are definitely times when it is better to pay less up front too.

cows546 wrote:
You completely ignored his ability to make a bunch of 4/4s out of your lands.

Another fair point. Although Kamahl can do the same, AND acts as a wrath deterrent by holding mana up to turn opponent lands into creatures in response. But it's true I probably am way too cautious when it comes to turning my own lands into creatures; I always fear that an opponent is going to blow me out with an Aetherspouts or Fated Retribution or Evacuation or Fire Covenant, even though that's probably only going to happen once every 50 or so games.

cows546 wrote:
You sure speak in a condescending tone for someone who's giving out bad advice.

Tone can be difficult to correctly convey and interpret in text. I am being sincere here. If you read me as condescending when I said "please continue to enjoy it," again that was completely sincere. I don't wish to talk someone out of running a fun card for themselves.

I also want to express again, please try to be civil here. Your first post was a single sentence calling me a fool for an opinion I had offered. Your second post ended with another personal attack on me. This forum is generally pretty friendly and laid back (at least relative to other parts of the internet). Getting in arguments should not be a goal for any of us. If you find that you really don't like what I have to say, you can always block me, rather than go for personal attacks.


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