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 Post subject: Re: Melek, Izzet Paragon- pondering
AgePosted: 2015-May-13 12:10 pm 
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Joined: 2011-Feb-07 3:37 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Danbury, CT
Does anyone still play this deck?

Anyone tried updating it with some of the spicier delve cards from Khans block? (They seem amusing with Riddle of Lightning, at least.)

Also, some of the blue exploit cards seem pretty good with something like Young Pyromancer, Talrand, and Goblinslide.

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 Post subject: Re: Melek, Izzet Paragon- pondering
AgePosted: 2015-May-14 2:20 am 

Joined: 2013-Jan-07 1:45 am
Age: Dragon
I remade an updated version of mine recently to focus on more burn spells, and the repercussion win-con advocated by ban ki-moon.

The cards I really wanted to use were:

incite rebellion
volcanic offering
burn away
treasure cruise
howl of the horde
domineering will
sudden demise
arcane lighthouse

... which is mostly cards from the recent commander set, but also some from Khans, yeah.

Anyway, it was fun, and less annoying than storm-based or cantrip-based versions of the deck, but it turns out that blowing up a bunch of stuff repeatedly and kind of policing the table makes a lot of enemies and people still wanted to punish me because I targetted one of their things once. Targetted removal really upsets people.

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Kothophed (mono black control, ETB abuse)
Teferi, Temporal Archmage (blue pillowfort superfriends)
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 Post subject: Re: Melek, Izzet Paragon- pondering
AgePosted: 2015-May-15 8:20 am 

Joined: 2012-Oct-09 1:35 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Stoke-On-Trent, England, UK
My melek deck used to be x burn with doubling rocks but i noticed it was a bit lacking and too onbvious, plus, melek is expensive for what he does. Recently wemt to Shu Yun to gain brightflame, aurelias fury and the all important soulfire grand master (why arent u legendary!!??). Im hoping it will be a bit soicier and put uo a more varied fight whilst havin extra angles to exploit and defend from whilst still keeping artifacts, x burns and valakut land base

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 Post subject: Re: Melek, Izzet Paragon- pondering
AgePosted: 2015-May-16 5:49 pm 
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Joined: 2011-Feb-07 3:37 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Danbury, CT
mmcgeach wrote:
...it turns out that blowing up a bunch of stuff repeatedly and kind of policing the table makes a lot of enemies and people still wanted to punish me because I targetted one of their things once. Targetted removal really upsets people.


Instead of policing the table, did you try sitting innocuously, emitting only the occasional Impulse until you were ready to torch the table? (maybe try to limit any loud noises or sudden movements...)

Also, Repercussion is neat, but it seems amazingly horrendous with Young Pyromancer and friends.

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 Post subject: Re: Melek, Izzet Paragon- pondering
AgePosted: 2015-May-22 2:25 am 

Joined: 2013-Jan-07 1:45 am
Age: Dragon
Kemev wrote:
Instead of policing the table, did you try sitting innocuously, emitting only the occasional Impulse until you were ready to torch the table? (maybe try to limit any loud noises or sudden movements...)

Heh. I dunno. I think the problem is SOMEONE has to slow down the people putting together insane value-engines and building toward overwhelming interlocking synergies; and the Melek deck I put together was pretty good at doing that - cause 1-for-1 spot removal becomes 2-for-1, that plus using a couple cantrips which become actual card advantage makes it a pretty reasonable way to play & build the deck.

I appreciate the humor, but to sort of seriously address the idea of waiting: I purposely didn't build the Melek single-turn combo engines into this build; so I couldn't just sit there and wait to go off. :/

Quote:
Also, Repercussion is neat, but it seems amazingly horrendous with Young Pyromancer and friends.

I think you're understating just HOW NEAT repercussion is. It's a fantastic game-changer, and makes all your red sweepers into finishers, many of which are sort of underwhelming. But look how awesome it makes these cards :

blasphemous act
incite rebellion
sudden demise
mizzium mortars
starstorm

and you'd probably play ALL those anyway. I also tried using magebane armor on Melek to give him some immunity, but didn't get that in play more than once.

I wouldn't use young pyromancer, that just seems weak. I did use Talrand, Sky Summoner, but that's very much better than pyromancer. Other than that, you're never going to have more than 2 creatures out, so your exposure to repercussion is pretty limited.

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Decklists:
Kothophed (mono black control, ETB abuse)
Teferi, Temporal Archmage (blue pillowfort superfriends)
Glint-Eye Nephilim (combat tricks, card draw, & creature pump)
Oloro Upkeep Tribal (enchantment-based control)
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 Post subject: Re: Melek, Izzet Paragon- pondering
AgePosted: 2015-Jun-24 8:31 am 
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Joined: 2011-Feb-07 3:37 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Danbury, CT
Do you have enough firepower to win without Repercussion (either because you're playing against a very-low-creature-count deck, or because someone won't let you keep Repercussion on the table)?

Is it worth playing some of the Wee Dragonauts type creatures?

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 Post subject: Re: Melek, Izzet Paragon- pondering
AgePosted: 2015-Jun-25 4:18 am 

Joined: 2013-Jan-07 1:45 am
Age: Dragon
I dunno. Yeah, maybe another win-con is a good idea. I think I'd stay away from storm-based win-cons like wee dragonauts, but something like spellheart chimera seems ok. Although runechanter's pike is probably better cause its way easier to get back if it dies. Although, it doesn't have trample or flying... Could run both, I guess.

My win cons were:
niv-mizzet #1
niv-mizzet #2
sphinx-bone wand
talrand, sky summoner
repercussion
comet storm
bribery / dominate / acquire

... you know, pretty much the stuff people suggest. Also, much as I want niv-mizzets to be good, they're kind of expensive and hard to protect, then hard to use effectively. The first one is probably best; the second one is... just too mana-hungry.

EDIT: also, can't wait to get Jace's Sanctum into this. Its like a combo arcane melee plus eyes of the watcher. And it stacks with both those.

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Decklists:
Kothophed (mono black control, ETB abuse)
Teferi, Temporal Archmage (blue pillowfort superfriends)
Glint-Eye Nephilim (combat tricks, card draw, & creature pump)
Oloro Upkeep Tribal (enchantment-based control)
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 Post subject: Re: Melek, Izzet Paragon- pondering
AgePosted: 2015-Jul-19 1:41 pm 

Joined: 2009-Jul-02 4:25 pm
Age: Drake
I've been piloting a creatureless build for a while now, and I've had great success with it.

Last weekend I stormed out and killed the whole table during an opponent's attack step thanks to a Turn-0 Leyline of Anticipation and a flashed Eye of the Storm accompanied by Reset, Grapeshot, and a hilarious string of cantrips off the top of my library.

Origins cards I've been playing include Talent of the Telepath and Jace's Sanctum. I'm debating making room for Pyromancer's Goggles, but 5 mana seems a little steep. Although getting even one trigger off of Epic Experiment (especially off the top if Melek is in play) seems amazing.


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 Post subject: Re: Melek, Izzet Paragon- pondering
AgePosted: 2015-Sep-19 6:21 pm 

Joined: 2011-Aug-18 3:35 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
majikal wrote:
Origins cards I've been playing include Talent of the Telepath and Jace's Sanctum. I'm debating making room for Pyromancer's Goggles, but 5 mana seems a little steep. Although getting even one trigger off of Epic Experiment (especially off the top if Melek is in play) seems amazing.


Goggles are amazing. If you're playing Mirari, gilded lotus or similar effects, it's already better IMO. You can always play cards like Glamerdye to change red to blue if you're not playing enough red or would rather it copy your blue spells. Glamerdye is a permanent change, not just til end of turn and it's great for screwing up devotion cards, swords of protection and plenty of other uses that people never expect.


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 Post subject: Re: Melek, Izzet Paragon- pondering
AgePosted: 2015-Nov-21 5:27 am 

Joined: 2013-Jan-07 1:45 am
Age: Dragon
Posting a recent Melek list here.

This is the idea I've come down to: don't use epic experiment, don't cast too many things per turn, don't storm out. Instead, play spells that impact the board.

spells (board impact)
vandalblast
izzet charm
chaos warp
electrolyze
polymorphist's jest
capsize
wash out
domineering will
grab the reins
aftershock
volcanic offering
burn away
acquire
bribery
prophetic bolt
incite rebellion
volcanic vision
blasphemous act
sudden demise
comet storm
dominate

spells (other)
brainstorm
ponder
high tide
faithless looting
swan song
mystic speculation
negate
arcane denial
into the roil
see beyond
telling time
increasing vengeance
seething song
frantic search
howl of the horde
compulsive research
fabricate
reiterate
plagiarize
mystic retrieval
fact or fiction
rewind
ugin's insight
radiate
time spiral
stroke of genius

enablers
sensei's divining top
relic of progenitus
scroll rack
druidic satchel
eyes of the watcher
widespread panic
jace's sanctum
arcane melee

win cons
repercussion
talrand, sky summoner
niv-mizzet, the firemind
sphinx-bone wand

ramp
sol ring
expedition map
izzet signet
dreamscape artist
burnished hart
solemn simulacrum
gilded lotus

land
arcane lighthouse
reliquary tower
academy ruins
thespian's stage
ancient tomb
izzet boilerworks
temple of the false god
command tower
volcanic island
steam vents
sulfur falls
shivan reef
swiftwater cliffs
8 mountain
12 island

I am using high tide and time spiral; and that's about the worst thing the deck can do. Mostly that just generates mana for a big comet storm. But, if those get too annoying, I'll replace them.

The deck might need more win conditions. It's fun to play as a spell-based control list, but there's some trouble with closing out games. Also could maybe use some of these cards:

potential adds:
mystic confluence
mizzix's mastery
illusory ambusher
cryptic command
ancestral knowledge
blatant thievery

Although mizzix's mastery will have to be on the watch list. If it's functionally equivalent to epic experiment, then the average play group won't really sit through it.

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Decklists:
Kothophed (mono black control, ETB abuse)
Teferi, Temporal Archmage (blue pillowfort superfriends)
Glint-Eye Nephilim (combat tricks, card draw, & creature pump)
Oloro Upkeep Tribal (enchantment-based control)
and more:Decklists


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 Post subject: Re: Melek, Izzet Paragon- pondering
AgePosted: 2016-Jan-06 4:13 pm 
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Joined: 2011-Feb-07 3:37 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Danbury, CT
Is there a consensus for which cantrips are best?

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 Post subject: Re: Melek, Izzet Paragon- pondering
AgePosted: 2016-Jan-07 3:13 am 

Joined: 2013-Jan-07 1:45 am
Age: Dragon
Ban Ki-Moon went through a huge list a few pages back in this thread. But it's sort of the cantrips that are good in other formats (legacy, vintage, modern) that are the best.

One thing I noticed is that preordain and serum visions flip their usefulness depending on having Melek in play. If he's out, then you want serum visions, cause you know what you're drawing and you use the scry to set up the topdeck for melek. If he's not out, then you want preordain to get the best possible card into your hand. And if Melek is out, then preordain is inefficient at setting up the top card.

I noticed you were using Repulse and Exclude, which are pretty cute. I don't think those were considered in Ban ki-Moon's list.


man, looking at my last list, I've somehow left out Torpor Orb. Which seems like a terrible oversight.

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Decklists:
Kothophed (mono black control, ETB abuse)
Teferi, Temporal Archmage (blue pillowfort superfriends)
Glint-Eye Nephilim (combat tricks, card draw, & creature pump)
Oloro Upkeep Tribal (enchantment-based control)
and more:Decklists


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 Post subject: Re: Melek, Izzet Paragon- pondering
AgePosted: 2016-Jan-07 8:05 pm 
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Joined: 2011-Feb-07 3:37 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Danbury, CT
mmcgeach wrote:
Ban Ki-Moon went through a huge list a few pages back in this thread. But it's sort of the cantrips that are good in other formats (legacy, vintage, modern) that are the best.


I remember the list, but it's a little dated at this point... there've been several powerhouse cards for this deck in the last year or so (Treasure Cruise, Dig Through Time, Jace, Vryn's Prodigy), plus a few more like Anticipate, Magmatic Insight, or Taigam's Scheming that might be conditionally better than other options.

mmcgeach wrote:
I noticed you were using Repulse and Exclude, which are pretty cute. I don't think those were considered in Ban ki-Moon's list.


I think Ban mentioned Repulse at some point (it's really good!) I like Exclude quite a bit, but it's probably worse than Remand... I'm looking for more counterspells that have upsides when copied or have other alternate uses (hence the full one-blast, two-blast/red blast, blue blast suite in my list); I'd like to try out Brutal Expulsion and Mystic Confluence.

mmcgeach wrote:
man, looking at my last list, I've somehow left out Torpor Orb. Which seems like a terrible oversight.


Maybe. It seems like a card that could bring the hate... "What, I can't FTK something? Well, attack you for 4 buddy."

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 Post subject: Re: Melek, Izzet Paragon- pondering
AgePosted: 2016-Jan-08 4:47 am 
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Joined: 2012-Jun-14 2:24 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Trapped in my own twisted imagination.
Brutal Expulsion gets my enthusiastic recommendation. I helped a friend build a melek deck recently, and though it was mostly just SpamCheapBurnToTheFace.dec at his desire, I convinced him to run expulsion and it has yet to fail at getting rid of several things, copied or not.
(should be noted that our group runs utility dorks out their ears, so the 2 damage half is possibly more relevant here than it could be for you)

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My Decks:
Ulasht, the Hate Seed: Tokens and the joy of one-sided boardwipes.
Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind: Science and pyromania, all in one volatile package.
Sygg, River Cutthroat: Sneaky horrible backstabbing ninjas+rogues.
Sek'Kuar, deathkeeper: It's ALIVE! And so is that one! In fact, ALL the formerly dead stuff is alive!
Sydri, Galvanic Genius: Artifacts and artifacts and lifegain and artifacts.
In Progress:
Mogis, God of Slaughter: Mr. Massacre and his things that ping.


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