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 Post subject: EDH Newbie needs help, choosing an general
AgePosted: 2014-Dec-31 2:48 pm 

Joined: 2014-Dec-12 2:11 am
Age: Wyvern
Yeah, hello again, after you've helped me to create an awesome but not competitive enough Squee Deck (and after convincing me, trying it out first before bringin it together), I need to choose an new general.
The problem I have is the problem that likely every new player has: So many cool commanders and just one deck to build...

The goal of this thread is for me to find out, which general to play (because I am an new player in the format I need your judgement, if the Idea is good or bad :roll: ) in an more cuttthroat-ish/competitive environment.

So first some facts 'bout me and the playstyle I would prefer:
- Things I like: Complicated interactions between cards (thinking outside of the box); Long and grindy games; Control; Dredge/Graveyard interactions; Red decks (because my 1st edh deck was one of these (Purphoros))
- Things I do not really like: Multiple extra turns; Blue "I can draw my entire library each turn" kind of decks; Infinite combos
- Live I've allready said, the one and only EDH-deck I have right now, is an Purphoros pseudo-Goblin Tribal aggro deck, which was the one and only competitive deck within my budget so my cardpool is kinda red-heavy.

tl;dr: I like something controll-ish, do not like the things, that are OP in blue, have many red cards and like messy, grindy Board states.

EDIT: New listed commanders

Thraximundar Control
Jeleva, Nephalia's scourge Control
Sidisi, Brood Tyrant Dredge Attrition
Shattergang Brothers Pseudo-Stax


Old ones:

Now to the topic (I think, it is best to write an commander+playstyle and cards, that I think, that are cool with the playstyle as an note style of thing and the why (if there is one) just under the note):

Mogis, God of slaughter Grief-ish Controll
Cards
Bloodchief Ascension With Mogis activating the card isn't hard and when online it is even more brutal paired up with our big and evil Bull
Blood Moon because why the hell not?
Dictate of the Twin Gods or Furnance of Rath to make mogis' effect more threatening
Sire of insanity when online, this is one reason to get the creature Mogis online because this lil baby keeps the ammount of answers pretty tight
Stranglehold keeps answers short

Why?
Yeah, this is hard. Punisher is an cool style of deck so why shouldn't I use one good engine as my commander himself? He also looks good and makes good political actions with a.e. attrition players, who like the fact, that my commander is an free sacrifice outlet for them. At the end, they will likely die to things like Vicious shadows etc. too.


Lazav, dimir mastermind Control/Voltron

Melek, Izzet Paragon Tempo / Tokens
cards
preordain / Serum Visions / Ponder / Brainstorm Small card draw and top card manipulation and great, when used with Melek
Pyretic ritual / seething Song/card] for netting mana hard core. Float 10 with Melek from top and you have some mana.
[card]mystical tutor
bounce 1 sorc/instant to the top and use it twice...
rite of replication getting 10 copies with melek sounds sweet

Why?
cause it looks like an fun mechanic to abuse

(conceptional) decklist:
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/melek-tempotokens/

I hope, that it is ok, to post that site here, it would be too much work for that time of the day, to copy every card and put them into an good order...

[/spoiler]
which of those strategys do you consider the most competitive and fun to play one? I hope, that you can help me with this :mrgreen:


Last edited by Kim Jong Illest on 2015-Jan-04 7:02 am, edited 4 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: EDH Newbie needs help, choosing an general
AgePosted: 2014-Dec-31 2:57 pm 

Joined: 2010-Sep-11 12:19 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Seems like you need a Damia, Battlecruiser Sage.dec; or Esper Land-Control.dec; or Hazezon Late Game Win Control.dec


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 Post subject: Re: EDH Newbie needs help, choosing an general
AgePosted: 2014-Dec-31 10:14 pm 

Joined: 2014-Dec-12 2:11 am
Age: Wyvern
Meh, I do not really like land control and damia is just not an general, I would like to play... Hazezon sounds fun but I think, I will stick to the ones above or can you tell me: why hazezon? I haven't seen this card yet


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 Post subject: Re: EDH Newbie needs help, choosing an general
AgePosted: 2014-Dec-31 11:24 pm 

Joined: 2008-Aug-08 6:34 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Rouen, France
Kim Jong Illest wrote:
Melek, Izzet Paragon Tempo / Tokens
cards
preordain / Serum Visions / Ponder / Brainstorm Small card draw and top card manipulation and great, when used with Melek
Pyretic ritual / seething Song/card] for netting mana hard core. Float 10 with Melek from top and you have some mana.
[card]mystical tutor
bounce 1 sorc/instant to the top and use it twice...
rite of replication getting 10 copies with melek sounds sweet

Why?
cause it looks like an fun mechanic to abuse


which of those strategys do you consider the most competitive and fun to play one? I hope, that you can help me with this :mrgreen:


I had a great time with Wizards/spells/Melek but it was very one-dimensional. I'd like to see a dedicated UR token deck with Melek at the helm.

_________________
Current decks:
Sydri's random pile of cards with "Artifact" on them
Scarab God Zombie Horde
Sissay 5c Superfriends
Morophon Eldrazi (5C Devoid)
Grenzo's Goblins


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 Post subject: Re: EDH Newbie needs help, choosing an general
AgePosted: 2015-Jan-01 8:07 am 

Joined: 2013-Jan-07 1:45 am
Age: Dragon
Well, of the cards you discuss, I think you've got these right:

1) stranglehold and blood moon are very good.
2) grave pact effects are very good; unless your opponent is playing tokens. Even then, they're still good.

Otherwise; Mogis is a terrible card; stax is difficult to pull off properly; melek is very fragile and a combo deck; furnace of rath effects are too symmetrical.

I see that you want to play a long game, (probably either get value out of your value engines or put down lock pieces to force a concession), and keep red in the deck. I'm sure this is possible, but I personally have pretty limited experience with red-based control decks. That said, I think maybe the shattergang brothers idea is your best. You can use green for ramp and enchantment destruction; use red for prison cards (stranglehold, blood moon, grip of chaos), and black for grave pact (dictate of erebos and butcher of malakir), reanimation, and general creature control.

The thing about playing "competitive" decks is that they have to run a lot of the best spells in each color. This makes them a) expensive, and b) repetitive.

Eg, you will absolutely need : greater good, sylvan library, genesis, phyrexian arena, kiki-jiki, mirror breaker, sheoldred, whispering one, damnation, vampiric tutor, demonic tutor. You could save on the mana base and hate hard on non-basic lands - blood moon, ruination, wave of vitriol and friends. Otherwise stuff like gaea's cradle and phyrexian tower and coffers + urborg and all the duals and fetches gets pretty expensive pretty fast.

_________________
Decklists:
Kothophed (mono black control, ETB abuse)
Teferi, Temporal Archmage (blue pillowfort superfriends)
Glint-Eye Nephilim (combat tricks, card draw, & creature pump)
Oloro Upkeep Tribal (enchantment-based control)
and more:Decklists


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 Post subject: Re: EDH Newbie needs help, choosing an general
AgePosted: 2015-Jan-02 12:20 am 

Joined: 2014-Dec-12 2:11 am
Age: Wyvern
so playing EDH in an competitive range is like trading fun for strength? :|
Hmmm so I have to find a sweet spot so that the games won't be that repetitive and still fun cause fun was the fact which because I went into edh :mrgreen: ...

Shattergang and Melek lists will be done in the next few hours (highly conceptional and likely far from perfect balance)

To our meta (so that you can get a picture of teh situation here): We have 9 players (and me) and many of them tend to spend much money for the game, which results in some pretty messed up lists.
Decks, that are frequently played are:
Progenitus really messed up 5 Color Planeswalker Conrol, Grand Arbiter Augustin IV control Jhoira of the Ghitu goodstuff.dec, Azami, lady of scrolls draw, Kozilek, Butcher of truth beatdown, Brago, King Eternal less competitive oriented U/W Superfriends build (which is awesome), Kaalia of the vast what to say about this? Arcum dagsson same plays every game.dec, Jarad, golgari lich lord attrition Edric, spymaster of Trest aggro and some more
Now you may know, why I do not like blue :mrgreen:
that's the meta, I need to have an deck for.

Why exactly is stax so difficult? I have chosen it because I got told that staxx is an great strategy for competitive play...


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 Post subject: Re: EDH Newbie needs help, choosing an general
AgePosted: 2015-Jan-02 1:16 am 
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Joined: 2010-Dec-10 12:16 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Kim Jong Illest wrote:
Why exactly is stax so difficult? I have chosen it because I got told that staxx is an great strategy for competitive play...


Stax is a great strategy for 1:1 tournament play. Stax in a multiplayer environment is hard to make symmetrical and keep everyone locked down. And it will make you target #1, since STAX has very little politics going for it. Punisher is a bit less off-putting and it depends on how "thick" the punisher schtick is as to how negative the reaction becomes (e.g. do you have War's Toll, or Spiteful Visions, or Blind obedience, or Underworld dreams out; or all of the above out at the same time).

I would say go for something like Thraximundar Voltron control. Crawlspace and Silent arbiter type effects, lots of targeted removal and sweepers. Some black and blue Exalted. And if you don't like counterspells, go with a bounce motif (preferable top of deck with shuffle effects - i.e. in response to your fetchland, Repel on Edric ).

_________________
V/R

HK

Hazezon Tamar - Manland theme
Seshiro the Anointed - Snake Tribal
Jedit Ojanen of Efrava - Cat and Warrior Dual Tribal
Doran, the Seige Tower - Wall Tribal
Progenitus - Hydra themed Proliferate Deck
Karona, the False God - Backstabbing Hug


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 Post subject: Re: EDH Newbie needs help, choosing an general
AgePosted: 2015-Jan-02 3:56 am 

Joined: 2013-Jan-07 1:45 am
Age: Dragon
Kim Jong Illest wrote:
Progenitus really messed up 5 Color Planeswalker Conrol, Grand Arbiter Augustin IV control Jhoira of the Ghitu goodstuff.dec, Azami, lady of scrolls draw, Kozilek, Butcher of truth beatdown, Brago, King Eternal less competitive oriented U/W Superfriends build (which is awesome), Kaalia of the vast what to say about this? Arcum dagsson same plays every game.dec, Jarad, golgari lich lord attrition Edric, spymaster of Trest aggro and some more

God, that sounds aweful. :( I'd play Zur the Enchanter in this meta. You can get a lot of good prison cards into a Zur build. I've run into most of these decks before, but they're all very hard to deal with. I can't imagine playing a game against several of them at once. A red-ish option might be to take my Jeleva build (in my sig) and take out some of the flavorful stuff and add more control/prison/counters. Jeleva turns out to be pretty effective, and has the side benefit of dicking over combo players by exiling large chunks of their decks.

The problem with Stax/Prison decks is you need the right prophylactic for the attack your opponents have in their hand. Like, lets say you drop turn one pithing needle naming Arcum Dagsson. Great. But how does that stop Kaalia? Drop turn-2 winter orb? Awesome. Should slow down 5-Color Planeswalkers. But Jhoira of the Ghitu doesn't use mana to cast spells, so that deck doesn't care. Torpor orb might shut off Jarad's deck, but do nothing to Kozilek. Etc. Etc.

OTOH, Prison decks are a ton of fun to play in EDH, because its a) challenging and b) unusual. So it can lead to a lot of interesting and memorable games. I think in your meta I'd be worried about making a different prison deck than Grand Arbiter Augustin and making sure your prison deck didn't either lose to his prison deck or just make his totally unstoppable.

_________________
Decklists:
Kothophed (mono black control, ETB abuse)
Teferi, Temporal Archmage (blue pillowfort superfriends)
Glint-Eye Nephilim (combat tricks, card draw, & creature pump)
Oloro Upkeep Tribal (enchantment-based control)
and more:Decklists


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 Post subject: Re: EDH Newbie needs help, choosing an general
AgePosted: 2015-Jan-03 12:38 pm 

Joined: 2014-Dec-12 2:11 am
Age: Wyvern
zimagic wrote:
I had a great time with Wizards/spells/Melek but it was very one-dimensional. I'd like to see a dedicated UR token deck with Melek at the helm.

There you go, conceptional list is in the starting post, U/R has not that many token cards to offer but this is my take on it.


To the topic:

So I need to choose another general/strategy...
1st to the sugestions:

Thraximundar seems awesome, thanks for that suggestion!

Jeleva seems cool too but she tends to use blue/black/red expensive spells, which means extra turns (and I do not really like this gameplaywise) so I will try it online without them first and see, if it works...
While Zur the enchanter seems to be strong like Arnold Schwarzenegger in his best days, he just seems to me like an even more broken Arcum Dagsson tending to do the same stuff every game period. Like Ramp into lightning greaves into zur into attack and poff, Necropotence fun times, yaaaaaaaaaaay...

Today I have pulled an Sidisi, Brood Tyrant and yeah, she looks pretty interesting, low costed, good engine for an dredge/attrition control, Great (if not the best) color combination and ETB effect. Sounds pretty strong imo...
Our Jarad player pointed out during a game afterwards, that Glissa, the Traitor could be build into an very strong, grindy and kinda non repetitive control deck, what do yopu guys think?

The newer choice of possible commanders will be in the starting post soon.


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 Post subject: Re: EDH Newbie needs help, choosing an general
AgePosted: 2015-Jan-03 2:30 pm 
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Joined: 2010-Dec-10 12:16 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Kim Jong Illest wrote:
Our Jarad player pointed out during a game afterwards, that Glissa, the Traitor could be build into an very strong, grindy and kinda non repetitive control deck, what do yopu guys think?


Glissa, the Traitor can be all that, and thanks to Thornbite Staff being in every Glissa deck I have ever seen she is also annoying to play against. But that may make her good for your meta. though I wouldn't call her non-repetitive. Glissa decks tend to play the same suite of artifacts to sac and return ad nauseam. It may not be identical cards every game, but it is generally Ramp artifact turn 1 or 2, Kill artifact turn 2 or 3, Glissa out turn 3 or 4, start killing and returning things every turn cycling the same 3-5 artifacts in and out of play until victory or defeat. YMMV

_________________
V/R

HK

Hazezon Tamar - Manland theme
Seshiro the Anointed - Snake Tribal
Jedit Ojanen of Efrava - Cat and Warrior Dual Tribal
Doran, the Seige Tower - Wall Tribal
Progenitus - Hydra themed Proliferate Deck
Karona, the False God - Backstabbing Hug


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 Post subject: Re: EDH Newbie needs help, choosing an general
AgePosted: 2015-Jan-03 9:49 pm 

Joined: 2014-Dec-12 2:11 am
Age: Wyvern
Hm well, that sounds kinda fun but yeah, the deck plays Ad nauseam which sounds like we have a combo deck over here :facepalm:
So in the end it will be Thraximundar vs Sidisi, Brood tyrant and Shattergang Brothers (if Jeleva doesn't impress me).

Starting post will be edited today.


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 Post subject: Re: EDH Newbie needs help, choosing an general
AgePosted: 2015-Jan-04 4:03 am 

Joined: 2013-Jan-07 1:45 am
Age: Dragon
Yeah, Jeleva probably is best built with some extra turns in there; although you can substitute extra attack phases, which is really all you want. But yeah, don't play it if it doesn't sound good.

You could play shattergang bros, and include glissa the traitor in the deck. I think Treamayne was just saying "you repeat the same artifacts repeatedly" using ad nauseam as a synonym for "repeatedly." Although, you shouldn't be afraid of ad nauseam the card - it's fun to use to draw 8-10 cards w/o a combo.

Edit: Cause, I'm killing time, I guess, A Zur list for your meta:

pithing needle
meekstone
cursed totem
winter orb
torpor orb

look at how good pithing needle (and nevermore) are in your meta! Also all these 2-mana hozer artifacts are super one-sided with Zur as your commander.

chains of mephistopheles / spirit of the labyrinth
arcane laboratory
rest in peace
overburden
aura of silence
mana vortex
nevermore
stony silence / energy flux

those are the enchantments that shut down your opponents.

necromancy
necropotence
rhystic study
mystic remora
steel of the godhead
diplomatic immunity / flickerform
unspeakable symbol
karmic justice
greater auramancy
land tax
prison term
copy artifact
copy enchantment

these enchantments just provide value and (unspeakable symbol) win cons.

force of will
misdirection
mana drain
negate
arcane denial
swan song
dimir charm
hinder
isochron scepter

You want a bunch of good counters here, and isochron scepter to re-use them. Look at how good dimir charm is! So many utility generals get killed by this.


dark confidant
aven mindcensor
sun titan
ertai, the corrupted
tezzeret the seeker
baleful strix
linvala, keeper of silence
guardian beast
notion thief
trinket mage

Those are other creatures and win cons. Linvala and Cursed Totem seem especially good in your meta. Ertai should be awesome for extra control.

armageddon
austere command
demonic tutor
vampiric tutor
enlightened tutor
wrath of god
cyclonic rift
scroll rack
swords to plowshares
replenish
brainstorm
swiftfoot boots
lightning greaves

Other staples.

tabernacle at pendrell vale
academy ruins
serra's sanctum
urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
strip mine
ancient tomb
cavern of souls
high market
homeward path

The special lands.

sol ring
mana crypt
azorius signet
dimir signet
orzhov signet
fellwar stone
coldsteel heart
expedition map

the mana artifacts.

and the rest would be land that taps for colored mana.

_________________
Decklists:
Kothophed (mono black control, ETB abuse)
Teferi, Temporal Archmage (blue pillowfort superfriends)
Glint-Eye Nephilim (combat tricks, card draw, & creature pump)
Oloro Upkeep Tribal (enchantment-based control)
and more:Decklists


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 Post subject: Re: EDH Newbie needs help, choosing an general
AgePosted: 2015-Jan-04 6:42 pm 

Joined: 2014-Dec-12 2:11 am
Age: Wyvern
Well, you are right, Ad nauseam is really kinda cool.

Decklists are in Progress...

Ty for the Zur deck, if everything fails, I will just lean back and use this :mrgreen:


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