I understand the intention to unban Crucible, I really do. But I do not think it was thought through enough. Fastbond/Crucible/Zuran Orb is far too easy to put together and once out, that is basically game. Not to mention, Fastbond/Crucible with Ghost Quarter/Wasteland/Strip mine is just as unfun as Tinker/Metalworker can be. Same with using Life from the Loam.

A large portion of people I know now run this combo and it is just the most lame thing ever for EDH. I am new to the format, but how can it be fun when a person can essentially landlock players starting on turn 3, which is faster than a Braids lock.

You say the changes were made because they were un-fun. Well, fastbond needs to go too since it is just as unfun.

I think if people start playing nothing but land lock decks, you can rest assured that Crucible will be back on the banned list realatively swiftly, either that or Fastbond will get the boot. Though honestly I think Crucible is the bigger problem at this point due to the unfun nature of the card. Rofellos can be fun in his own way, its just when every deck is modifying themselves to run a certain combo, that it becomes a problem.

I like crucible being unbanned but i have to say fastbond is a problem

I see that, but this is focused more on Fastbond it self.

You do realize Fastbond is the problem card, not Crucible, right?

I disagree with how you offhandedly dropped Life from the Loam into the same category as Crucible for land locking players. It is MUCH more difficult to replay out lands infinitely, or even just a bunch of times in one turn, via Loam than Crucible. This is due to the draw requirement and the constant mana requirement of Loam.

The "unfun" nature of Crucible-land lock I could see 1v1. But that's more of the tournament version of this format anyways, and lots of stupid broken stuff happens to the format if you duel, this included. In multiplayer, the landlock thing is only going to occur if Fastbond is involved (hence the thread name). This is because Fastbond is the combo card, and thus draws all complaints.

The thread Ban Ki-Moon linked quickly changes discussion to Fastbond (suprise, suprise). I listed my Fastbond list on page 4 of that linked thread. When I play that deck, I only do nutty things with lands if I have a fastbond+something else. Granted, my list didn't run black, but I do run tons of draw card and in my experience it's not as easy to assemble Fastbond combos as you think. Fastbond combos with a lot of different cards and it's lightning fast, but these are the only reasons it POSSIBLY should be banned over any number of other combo cards.

Now I realize your thread is about Fastbond so I'll keep my last paragraph brief, since it's a hijack. I'd still rather see Sundering Titan go than Fastbond. Fastbond rewards god hands, tutors, and draw card (like every combo deck). Sundering Titan rewards every mouth breather who offhandedly plays it, because it's basically always 10 for 1s, or worse if recurred. And since it's multiplayer, there's usually enough targets for the lands that it has minimal to no drawback for yourself.

First off, Loam was in reference for Fastbond/Loam, not Loam/Other lands.

Second, about Titan, it IS multiplayer, so it won't hurt people enough. A person might lose 2 while the rest lose 1. Not very harmful I feel. It is busted to a degree in 1v1, but no where near what Fastbond is about. And there are plenty of RFG spells and the fact that tinker nuked that makes titan or recurring him less of a problem

Fastbond is busted.

I had a similar opening, with Exploration instead of Fastbond. The end result was the same: Crucible + Strip Mine ftw.

Also, if early Sol Ring did not already pull one player way ahead on mana development...Fastbond just makes it worse.

Congratulations Doremon you have officially reached 700 posts. HAZZA!!!!

Que the balloon drop and confetti followed by a busty lady jumping out of an overly large cake.

More fuel to the Fastbond fire.

In a 3-man last night, I had an opponent open on Burgeoning, but get wrecked by my Fastbond and Flagstones fueled Cataclysm. While the rest of the table was struggling to catch up, I played Future Sight. No one has noted the interaction between Future Sight and Fastbond, but I ran through my library pretty quickly. My deck doesn't even have Crucible in it (it's in the mail ), but once I assembled Future Sight and Fastbond (and eventually Top too), I was just too far ahead of the table. Remove Fastbond from that scenario, and the Survival player at least might have caught up.

I'm betting you like to run 5 color decks.

Sundering punishes 5Color players. If you're playing a Mono Colored deck, or even a two or three color deck, chances are it's not going to hurt you too badly. Especially considering all the nonbasics run in EDH.
Titan is a check on players who want to run Horde or Scion or Sliver or any 5 color goodstuff decks.
And it's no worse then something like Magister, with a big swingy effect.

That being said, I don't tend to run it in casual games but I sure as hell want the option to include it in more competitive games.

Is there a problem?

I don't recall reaching 700 posts by congratulating people on their milestones, or even aiming to post as much as possible.

If you find my 2 cents worthless, blame the guy who started this thread, because we all know Fastbond is nuts. As you can see, everyone is pretty much saying the same thing in this thread. I guess chipping in to put more emphasis on the problem so the EDH Committee can see just how many ppl have problems with it is rather pointless.

Before you take offense, consider the possibility that Oncita may have been sincerely congratulating you.

Ya that's what I though he was doing. Take the complement!