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AgePosted: 2009-Apr-02 6:12 pm 

Joined: 2008-Jun-20 7:38 am
Age: Elder Dragon
I'd love to be able to play Balance in Rafiq or Zur, preciscely because I know exactly how stupid it'd be.

That said, please don't unban it.

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AgePosted: 2009-Apr-02 9:53 pm 
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Joined: 2009-Jan-25 9:01 pm
Age: Wyvern
Balance in a 1v1 game might be more brutal but the setup required for it to knock 3-5 other people out as welll is insane. We have a player who plays cataclysm and follows up with sliver queen. It would take at least 9 attacks to kill three other guys. While this is possible it still has to resolve and you still have to assemble all the parts. EDH is casual so I say if your group okays something do it.


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AgePosted: 2009-Apr-02 11:51 pm 

Joined: 2009-Apr-02 11:09 pm
Age: Drake
Pandabob is mistaken. My optimal play is Decree of Annihilation followed by Sliver Queen, General, with City of Solitude out. If such a thing resolves, the game usually ends with scooping or in a few rounds or less. That said, Balance was only ever used to prolong the game. Most spells that have such an effect cost at least 6 (Jokulhaups), while Balance costs 2. It's the primary reason why many cards are banned in legacy, they are just undercosted. It has nothing to do with the effect.


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AgePosted: 2009-Apr-03 5:14 am 
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Joined: 2006-May-24 10:14 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Tampa, FL, USA
Artos wrote:
I'd love to be able to play Balance in Rafiq or Zur, preciscely because I know exactly how stupid it'd be.

That said, please don't unban it.


For two more mana, you have Balancing Act.

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AgePosted: 2009-Apr-03 6:13 am 
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Joined: 2008-Dec-28 12:17 am
Age: Drake
Location: Massachusetts
SnailSlug wrote:
It's the primary reason why many cards are banned in legacy, they are just undercosted. It has nothing to do with the effect.


I am pretty sure 4x Balance in 60 cards is a little different than 1x Balance in 100 cards.

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AgePosted: 2009-Apr-03 6:50 am 
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Joined: 2007-Sep-21 8:22 am
Age: Elder Dragon
1) Balance will never be unbanned this is a cordial discussion explaining why it's banned. Please treat it as such.

2)
SnailSlug wrote:
It has nothing to do with the effect.

Mind Twist + Armageddon + Wrath depending on your deck's construction. The argument that you can change the casting cost is moot...you can't. It will forever be a single white mana and a colorless. And thus, banned because it does the above to all players and can be easily constructed around to be broken. Seems like we're talking in circles here people.


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AgePosted: 2009-Apr-03 8:03 am 
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Joined: 2009-Jan-25 9:01 pm
Age: Wyvern
In what situation is it all of those other cards or what combination of those is that gamebreaking?(Mind Twist + Armageddon + Wrath)

It requires you to sac your lands to an orb float mana, have no creatures and no other cards in hand. Then play your 7+ power general and then kill off multiple other players before one can build back up. In any other situation it's sub par and will just piss off the rest of the table.

The banned list is just suggestions of what is "Dangerous" to the format. If your group is okay with a card on it try it.


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AgePosted: 2009-Apr-03 11:07 am 

Joined: 2009-Apr-02 11:09 pm
Age: Drake
4x Balance in 60 cards is not possible. Balance is restricted in Vintage and banned in Legacy.


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AgePosted: 2009-Apr-03 1:16 pm 
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Joined: 2008-Aug-15 9:31 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Have you ever played multi-player where 4 out of the 5 players are packing Balance? It wouldn't be so bad if it cost more because then you wouldn't have to worry about the 3rd and 4th one coming. Someone would probably be dead by the time people reached the amount of mana that Balance SHOULD cost. But when it costs so little, usually people aren't ever shut out of it's casting cost. Then you have to weather through so many copies of them that it makes you sick to your stomach.

Guy 1: "Oh, somebody is ahead in the game. Ok, Balance."
Guy 2: "Oh, so now the guy who played Balance is pulling ahead. My turn to Balance."
Guy 3: "Well I'm certainly not going out of this game before I play my Balance."
Guy 4: "You know, I've been basically just keeping up this whole game, but never pulling ahead. But because of so many incidental wreckings I recieved from your Balances, all I have left is some lands."
Guy 5: "Well you're about to lose those too. Bad news bears for you. Balance."

I personally have just wanted to quit games when that happens.


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AgePosted: 2009-Apr-03 6:32 pm 
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Joined: 2008-Dec-28 12:17 am
Age: Drake
Location: Massachusetts
Am I the only one who finds these ridiculous hypothetical situations hilarious?

I think Balance in a duel in this format may be problematic, but as the banned list is created with the idea of 4+ players in mind (from what I gather), I don't really see a problem with it.

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AgePosted: 2009-Apr-03 8:25 pm 
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Joined: 2007-Sep-21 8:22 am
Age: Elder Dragon
RobPro wrote:
Am I the only one who finds these ridiculous hypothetical situations hilarious?


dude stop posting when you don't have anything to say lol. It's like debating with a 2 year old who only says NO. Shhhhhhhh RobPro. Shhhhhhh. These people know things.


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AgePosted: 2009-Apr-04 1:18 am 

Joined: 2009-Mar-19 5:01 pm
Age: Wyvern
warble wrote:
dude stop posting when you don't have anything to say lol. It's like debating with a 2 year old who only says NO.


RobPro made an effort to justify what he said. You just told him "NO". Think on that before you patronise someone again.


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AgePosted: 2009-Apr-04 1:58 am 

Joined: 2008-Apr-28 4:23 pm
Age: Drake
Pandabob wrote:
Balance in a 1v1 game might be more brutal but the setup required for it to knock 3-5 other people out as welll is insane. We have a player who plays cataclysm and follows up with sliver queen. It would take at least 9 attacks to kill three other guys. While this is possible it still has to resolve and you still have to assemble all the parts. EDH is casual so I say if your group okays something do it.

Playing almost exclusively 1v1, I can tell you Balance is reaaaaaally poor there.
Even decks running lots of artifact have hard time making CA>1 after a long setup

Kevin.


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AgePosted: 2009-May-03 9:51 pm 

Joined: 2008-Jun-07 11:34 am
Age: Wyvern
Guy 1: "Oh, somebody is ahead in the game. Ok, Balance."
Guy 2: "Oh, so now the guy who played Balance is pulling ahead. My turn to Balance."
Guy 3: "Well I'm certainly not going out of this game before I play my Balance."
Guy 4: "You know, I've been basically just keeping up this whole game, but never pulling ahead. But because of so many incidental wreckings I recieved from your Balances, all I have left is some lands."
Guy 5: "Well you're about to lose those too. Bad news bears for you. Balance."
Guy 4: "Too Bad you suck and I have this awesome card called Mana Drain"
Guy 5: "Shut up lil boy, I am Malfegor the Wrath King of the Jungle Book"
Guy 3: (Laughs Histerically)
Guy 5: "And What Might YOU BE LAUGHING AT"
Guy 3: *Dies via viral hemmoraging*
Guy 4: You still lose.

This is just about as serious as Balance staying on the banned list. It is really not that powerful outside 1v1 games.

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AgePosted: 2009-May-04 12:58 am 
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Joined: 2009-Mar-13 2:01 pm
Age: Drake
Location: Texas
John Jones wrote:
This is just about as serious as Balance staying on the banned list. It is really not that powerful outside 1v1 games.


If you don't see how broken the scenerio you just described is... I am not about to explain it to you.... Suffice to say, I can't imagine a more broken mass land destruction card than Balance, and it is the only one that absolutely MUST be banned and stay banned for the health of the format.


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