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 Post subject: Solid Green Devotion: Polukranos
AgePosted: 2014-May-18 12:48 pm 
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Joined: 2012-Nov-27 4:39 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Midgard
This isn't your mono green devotion deck--I really like how "mono" and "mama's" in that line is nearly interchangeable. In other news, I'm being truthful: this deck is dedicated to mono-green. In fact, so dedicated there isn't any artifacts--it goes much further than this:

Deckbuilding Rule: if a non-land card has its converted mana cost equal to 1, then its mana cost must include {G}. If a non-land card has converted mana cost greater than 1, then its mana cost must include {G}{G}.

I really like following obscure rules and making it a challenge to produce at least a decent deck. This one actually has turned out rather well. I still play in casual settings, so I'm not looking to create a deck to win "tournaments."
So why Polukranos? It is an effective beater with built-in creature removal. It means in some early games I can rock people and end them before they can get their feet under them. Other times, Polukranos will sit on the sidelines and wait until I really need removal or need to press an existing advantage.

So why not Nylea, God of the Hunt? It follows the devotion idea, right? It does...but I don't own one. Also, I just don't like the god cards so I'm not including them.

Elves? Yeah, if I wanted to make this into an Ezuri, Renegade Leader deck I could...but that deck has been done to death and adding this deckbuilding rule to it wouldn't change a whole lot of cards.

Commander:
Polukranos, World Eater

Planeswalkers: 3
Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury
Garruk, Caller of Beasts
Garruk Wildspeaker

Creatures: 37
Acidic Slime
Arbor Colossus
Archetype of Endurance
Creeperhulk
Elvish Mystic
Essence of the Wild
Eternal Witness
Gaea's Revenge
Giant Adephage
Joraga Treespeaker
Jugan, the Rising Star
Kalonian Hydra
Lifeblood Hydra
Llanowar Elves
Masked Admirers
Master of the Wild Hunt
Mistcutter Hydra
Moldgraf Monstrosity
Mul Daya Channelers
Nacatl War-Pride
Pelakka Wurm
Predator Ooze
Primordial Hydra
Primordial Sage
Realm Seekers
Rushwood Elemental
Soul of the Harvest
Spearbreaker Behemoth
Temur Sabertooth
Temur War Shaman
Verdant Force
Vigor
Whisperwood Elemental
Wildheart Invoker
Wolfir Silverheart
Woodfall Primus
Worldspine Wurm
Yavimaya Dryad

Enchantments: 12
Asceticism
Bow of Nylea
Burgeoning
Druids' Repository
Exploration
Hall of Gemstone
Keen Sense
Mana Reflection
Night Soil
Rancor
Wild Growth
Zendikar's Roil

Instants: 3
Lure of Prey
Momentous Fall
Slice In Twain

Sorceries: 6
Bramblecrush
Natural Order
Nissa's Revelation
Praetor's Counsel
Shamanic Revelation
Whirlwind

Lands: 38
Ghost Quarter
Haunted Fengraf
Ice Floe
Khalni Garden
Myriad Landscape
Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
Rogue's Passage
Tectonic Edge
Tranquil Thicket
Treetop Village
28 x Forest

By the way, Verdant Force + Essence of the Wild = awesome. I got this out in one of the test games below, and it worked out really well. This combination also works pretty well with Master of the Wild Hunt. I wanted to point this combination out specifically, because Essence of the Wild is such a weird card.

Other cards I currently have that I am considering:
Rain of Thorns: I don't know yet if I need another removal spell.
Storm Front: Because flying creatures are a hassle for this deck. Silklash Spider is also a possibility, but this one is more obscure.
Krosan Tusker: because staples exist.
Protean Hydra: I had this in originally, but took it out for Wildheart Invoker. I really like hydras in this deck for whatever reason.
Jugan, the Rising Star: I think this is going to replace the Nessian hydra if I have a spare Jugan.

Other cards I'd consider in a perfect world:
Renegade Krasis: cheap card I don't own, but seems possibly really good.
Squirrel Nest: Reprinting this in Conspiracy, so seems like I might have one to play around with.
Yavimaya Elder: I don't have one available currently, unfortunately, but Yavimaya Dryad has been doing well so far by getting the land immediately.
Greater Good: There's so many decks I own which need this card, but I just don't want to spend the money right now.
Willow Satyr: yay for cards which break the color pie!
Khalni Hydra: I don't own one...sadly... :(

I have played this deck in two different games now, both 1v1. Once against Ephara and another time against Daxos.

This deck isn't the prettiest thing in the galaxy, but it does well for itself. Mana Reflection on the fifth turn into a seventh turn 13/13 Mistcutter Hydra in the first game. Against Daxos, Natural Order dug out Gaea's Revenge (white mana was up for possible removal) and with Rancor on went to town on turn four (although I did end up losing that match).

Card draw is obviously a problem, but I didn't want to pile in tons of tutors. By drastically increasing the number of creatures in the deck, I'm hoping it means the majority of the cards I do draw are threats. This should help offset the lower amount of tutors and card draw I have.

Nessian Wilds Ravager--taken out for Jugan, the Upstart. I don't think the card it terrible, it just isn't good enough. Also, I determined I needed a little more air support, so this is going in for that reason.
Heroes' Bane
Hydra Broodmaster
Hydra Omnivore--I really, really want this in, but it just underperforms so often.
Vastwood Hydra--I guess I've pretty much dropped all the hydras now... :(
Vorapede
Wildheart Invoker--replaced by Creeperhulk
Yeva, Nature's Herald
Bequeathal--got better draw cards
Harmonize--again, there's better draw
Overrun

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Last edited by Segrus on 2015-Aug-18 9:47 am, edited 10 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Solid Green Devotion: Polukranos
AgePosted: 2014-May-18 7:19 pm 
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Joined: 2011-Feb-07 3:37 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Danbury, CT
I've been playing Seton devo-green... I like it quite a bit... sucks that you don't have Khalni Hydra...

I'm playing a bunch of stuff that's probably not optimal, but still a lot of fun. Like Primulcrux. I want to try Aspect of Hydra too; I'm pretty sure noone will see a Commander KO coming off Seton and an untapped forest :)

I'm also running a bunch more token producers than you are. Wolfbriar Elemental and Hornet Queen have both been really good.

(Your deck doesn't really have anything bad looking; just a few things I've been doin' different...)

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 Post subject: Re: Solid Green Devotion: Polukranos
AgePosted: 2014-May-18 10:44 pm 

Joined: 2012-Oct-09 1:35 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Stoke-On-Trent, England, UK
i played against this bad ass deck and it was a bloody close game, I look forward to having more games against it and see how it rolls. Just noticed a lack of yavimaya hollow in your list and possibly Thrun, the Last Troll, garruk, primal hunter these are some of my go to cards that I would play in a mono green deck, and all of them hit your rules too, its a shame dungrove elder misses your rules though!

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 Post subject: Re: Solid Green Devotion: Polukranos
AgePosted: 2014-May-18 11:49 pm 
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Joined: 2013-Apr-09 11:11 am
Age: Drake
Location: San Diego
For dealing with flying you could try Arashi, the Sky Asunder or Jugan, the Rising Star


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 Post subject: Re: Solid Green Devotion: Polukranos
AgePosted: 2014-May-19 1:33 am 

Joined: 2009-Nov-28 7:07 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Considered Fangren Firstborn?

Ant Queen, & Mycoloth, have to go well with Essence of the Wild...


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 Post subject: Re: Solid Green Devotion: Polukranos
AgePosted: 2014-May-19 5:08 am 
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Joined: 2011-Jan-02 5:25 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Costa La Haya, capital del ducado Holanda
Kemev wrote:
I'm also running a bunch more token producers than you are. Wolfbriar Elemental and Hornet Queen have both been really good.


I second this (well, not the part where Kemev mentions Hornet Queen), especially since you're already playing Master of the Wild Hunt. These two cards belong together. The good thing about Wolfbriar is that it's scalable. I'd find a way to run Wren's Run Packmaster, mainly because there's a sweet prerelease version of it but the deathtouch is good with the wolves. Unfortunately it doesn't match your deck construction criteria. Using Champion to get double duty out of something like a Wood Elves is fun though.

Oh, and since Bow of Nylea is your only artifact ;) you could run Molder Slug. Other random suggestions: Foster and Call of the Wild.

As an aside, why/how did Master of the Wild Hunt become an expensive card? http://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Magic+2010/Master+of+the+Wild+Hunt#tab-paper

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 Post subject: Re: Solid Green Devotion: Polukranos
AgePosted: 2014-May-19 5:52 am 
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Joined: 2012-Nov-27 4:39 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Midgard
Thanks for all of the replies! I'm grateful for the attention to the deck, because it being mono-Green tends to put people off, I think (at least around here, since Omnath decks tend to get old quickly). Okay, so one person at a time:
maiden77 wrote:
i played against this bad ass deck and it was a bloody close game, I look forward to having more games against it and see how it rolls. Just noticed a lack of yavimaya hollow in your list and possibly Thrun, the Last Troll, garruk, primal hunter these are some of my go to cards that I would play in a mono green deck, and all of them hit your rules too, its a shame dungrove elder misses your rules though!

It was a really close game. I really should have draw another removal spell, which is what makes me consider adding another one. Maybe Creeping Mold.

Yavimaya Hollow definitely would be a great one. You know...I only own a single copy of it, and I'm not certain where it is at the moment (I really should know, but I have about 6-8 other EDH decks with Green in them...). Thrun is...expensive, and the next one I get is going in my B Movie Monsters deck. Garruk, Primal Hunter is sorta in the same boat currently--meaning I have one, but it's in another deck currently, and I really don't like sharing cards between decks. I think I'm going to stick with the two Garruks I have right now. Maybe with the next fall set being Sarkon Vol's homeworld, we'll get another Green planeswalker who isn't Garruk. Doubtful, but I'm hopeful.

Wolfram wrote:
For dealing with flying you could try Arashi, the Sky Asunder or Jugan, the Rising Star

Definitely would add Jugan over Arashi. I think the appeal lies in getting to buff another creature. If I find I have a spare Jugan (I think there might be an unfinished Dragon Horde deck (as in similar the Zombie Horde format, except with dragons) with one I could use), I'll probably replace Nessian Wilds Ravager--I'm not overall impressed with what it does, because I'll likely never get the fight option and a 12/12 is rather un-scary when it doesn't have trample or evasion. Thanks!

green slime wrote:
Considered Fangren Firstborn?

Ant Queen, & Mycoloth, have to go well with Essence of the Wild...

I haven't owned a Fangren Firstborn, but I had considered it for a moment and mostly for the reason of tokens. You've brought up a good point, and I should probably explore my reasoning about tokens and token producers.

Okay, so here's the problem I have with putting more token producers into the deck: tokens with Essence of the Wild is great--actually, it's incredibly stellar; however, Essence of the Wild acts like a super-charged Collective Blessing, except with more weaknesses.

First off, there's the problem of getting Essence of the Wild out consistently (because token producers can be gotten out very reliably by just adding more to the deck). This means I'll likely need to start playing Worldly Tutor, Sylvan Tutor, and Green Sun's Zenith just to start. I already want to play only a few tutors to prevent making repetitive gameplay, and it also affords me the ability to throw more creatures into the deck. So this is immediately problematic.

If I don't provide any tutors for Essence of the Wild, then these tokens are going to have to hold their own or I'm going to need at least a couple hundred of them. In the first case, there's just not a lot of creature buffs with the current deck-building rule: Fangren Firstborn, Gaea's Anthem, Joraga Warcaller (if I were going elf token route), sorta Kalonian Hydra and Renegade Krasis, and then the available mass +1/+1 counter spells (Decree of Savagery, Nature's Panoply, Strength of the Tajuru, and Thrive). I just don't know if that's enough. Instead, I might try making lots of tokens...but I fall short for a different reason. I have to play cards which make tokens without entering the battlefield, because I can pay a ton of mana into Wolfbriar Elemental but it won't make any tokens if Essence of the Wild is out. This inherent problem combined with my deck-building rule cuts out nearly every mono-Green token producer.

So what about putting them in and don't worry about making a token deck? Well, most of the token producers I already have do very specific things: Master of the Wild Hunt allows me more removal, Giant Adephage doubles itself every turn for free (and 7/7 trample is nothing to scoff at), Worldspine Wurm is...well...yeah 15/15 trample would be enough for this card, and Verdant Force makes tokens for free while being a 7/7. Ant Queen doesn't provide free tokens, and while I can produce lots of mana in the right circumstances there's just not enough ramp. In both games, I stalled out on 5-6 land, and missed a lot of land drops. Mana Reflection and Nykthos saved me from needing more land, one in each game. Mycoloth is a star...when you're playing enough other token producers. Putting +1/+1 counters on it over time just isn't good enough.

Why even have Essence of the Wild then? Well, the surprise element is a lot. It's a crap-Mythic Rare no one expects to see. It is a 6/6 in its own right, which isn't terrible (although I really wish it had trample or was legendary or something...). All of the copies of itself add 3 to my Green devotion--which is a big deal. It makes the few mana producers I have gain late game relevance. And in rare situations, Verdant Force or Master of the Wild Hunt will make it stellar.

I'm glad your deck is working out. Do you have a list somewhere? Wolfbriar and Hornet Queen are solid cards, but I don't think they fit into this deck right now. I don't have enough focus on tokens, and I don't think my deck-building rule allows for a solid enough token strategy. See my comments to green slime for a more complete explanation on that.

Shabbaman wrote:
Oh, and since Bow of Nylea is your only artifact ;) you could run Molder Slug. Other random suggestions: Foster and Call of the Wild.

As an aside, why/how did Master of the Wild Hunt become an expensive card? http://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Magic+2010/Master+of+the+Wild+Hunt#tab-paper

Possibly, but I don't know if Molder Slug is quite good enough. 4/6 for 5 mana without trample is...well, it really isn't much of anything. Making every sac an artifact each upkeep would be nice though, and if I end up in a meta where I expect an overabundance of artifacts then I'll probably slip one in (once I own one, lol). Foster and Call of the Wild are both kinda on a watch list, if I really, really had a watch list. Foster would probably be a better one, after having played the deck some. Without consistently knowing what the top card is, I don't want to decimate lands for four mana each turn. Foster can technically do the same thing, but leaving one mana open isn't as bad and I'm guaranteed a creature.

I have no idea how the Master got so expensive. I own probably five or six of those guys, and have thought nothing of it...

If someone has managed to get through all of my ridiculous rambling, particularly the green slime's part, understand I actually have tried a more token-oriented route with a previous incarnation of this deck. The previous version was, for lack of a better term, 'good stuff' mono-Green deck with Patron of the Orochi at the helm. I had no deck-building rule, and so played whatever token producers I wanted: they just didn't cut it. Too often, Essence of the Wild was expected to come out so he either ate removal or board wipe killed the token producers I had out. Focusing too hard on the combination seems to backfire every time. Maybe I just wasn't building the deck right or playing it correctly--both are possible. But I did try previously, and I don't know if I care for the straight token route as much.

Give me some time, I'll edit the original post so that there's a token version of this deck with it's own list.

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 Post subject: Re: Solid Green Devotion: Polukranos
AgePosted: 2014-May-19 6:29 am 

Joined: 2009-Nov-28 7:07 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Well, Molder slug is an insidious card.

Few are played anywhere, so it sort of slips under the radar. In a meta with bombs landing every turn, it still doesn't register as a massive threat. Yet it has a decent body, and can block such irritants as 4/4 beasts. And every fricking turn it eats an artifact. It's surprisingly effective: No one feels it is a big enough threat to eat spot, yet everyone keeps hoping that someone else is going to do something about it. I'm always sufficiently horrified when I see it appear to curse myself for not adding it more often.

I guess it does sort of depend on how common playing artifacts is in your meta.

BTW I admit to having a soft spot for the Ant Queen and Mycoloth... But your reasoning makes perfect sense to me. I'm just glad to see Masked Admirers.


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 Post subject: Re: Solid Green Devotion: Polukranos
AgePosted: 2014-May-19 6:39 am 
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Joined: 2012-Nov-27 4:39 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Midgard
green slime wrote:
I'm just glad to see Masked Admirers.

Cards, man! I NEEDZ the CARDZ!

The deck is desperate for card draw, although in either of the test games I didn't see Primordial Sage or Soul of the Harvest. I'm not yet convinced I don't have enough.
green slime wrote:
I'm always sufficiently horrified when I see it appear to curse myself for not adding it more often.

I'll keep this in mind. I guess there just hasn't been a *whole* lot of artifacts in the GAME THREAD from what I remember.
green slime wrote:
BTW I admit to having a soft spot for the Ant Queen and Mycoloth... But your reasoning makes perfect sense to me.

I do too, actually. Both of those were in the Patron of the Orochi incarnation, but I also ran nearly every mana doubler and also had several other cards producing tokens. A long time ago, I had a 60-card deck with Ant Queens and Sigil Captains. Also, I really like the idea of Mycoloth and Blade of the Bloodchief.

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 Post subject: Re: Solid Green Devotion: Polukranos
AgePosted: 2014-May-19 6:58 am 

Joined: 2012-Oct-09 1:35 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Stoke-On-Trent, England, UK
ok, i read your detailed replies, much props for that! I think the main aspect to be discussed is tokens. And I agree with your only limited inclusion of tokens for a few reasons. I have a Rith token deck that started off as 5 colour werewolf and wolf so I have worked on a lot of token decks and iterations. I found that without serious supported from enchantments and recursion of them (almost exclusively white) you just can't go hard enough at your opponents. I also found that due to the CMC I needed a lot of mana and therefore enchantment mana doublers to play expensive but quality token producers, planeswalkers and support artifacts and enchantments.

I also love the feel of a poper mono green beat down deck that uses beasts, wurms and other large green baddies! I think its the definitive green thing, not even ramp, just green big mutha fuckas that smack you until you are dead. So I love the flavour as it is. That said I agree that Wolfbriar Elemental is an absolute house, with or without token support, late game its like a built zombie army of the damned without the tapped restriction and therefore arguably much better/useful even without the flasback and more expensive cost to cast.

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 Post subject: Re: Solid Green Devotion: Polukranos
AgePosted: 2014-May-19 7:00 am 

Joined: 2012-Oct-09 1:35 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Stoke-On-Trent, England, UK
Segrus wrote:
I'll keep this in mind. I guess there just hasn't been a *whole* lot of artifacts in the GAME THREAD from what I remember.

Thats because I haven't played my Sen Triplets deck yet and have only played my equipment deck once :-P

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 Post subject: Re: Solid Green Devotion: Polukranos
AgePosted: 2014-May-19 7:27 am 
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Joined: 2009-Aug-20 7:49 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Hampshire
Segrus wrote:
Deckbuilding Rule: if a non-land card has its converted mana cost equal to 1, then its mana cost must be {G}. If a non-land card has converted mana cost greater than 1, then its mana cost must include {G}{G}.

Segrus wrote:

WTF you rule-breaker?

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 Post subject: Re: Solid Green Devotion: Polukranos
AgePosted: 2014-May-19 7:39 am 
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Joined: 2012-Nov-27 4:39 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Midgard
Sid the Chicken wrote:
Segrus wrote:
Deckbuilding Rule: if a non-land card has its converted mana cost equal to 1, then its mana cost must be {G}. If a non-land card has converted mana cost greater than 1, then its mana cost must include {G}{G}.

Segrus wrote:
Creatures: 40
...
Karametra's Acolyte
...

WTF you rule-breaker?

Glad you noticed that. At the moment...well...it's the whole devotion thing. I felt like maybe it would be okay because of that.

Honestly though, I'm holding that spot for another mana producer. Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger came to mind briefly, but that guy is mean. I noticed both Magus of the Vineyard and Shizuko, Caller of Autumn on my way through cards I own, but giving my opponents mana seemed like a really stupid idea. Veteran Explorer is another one of these kinds of creatures, and it ends up in other decks when I have multiple colors or a sacrifice theme (such as in Thromok).

...
...
..............
...
...

S___.
Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary is double {G} isn't he? I had to buy one of those guys specifically for my Cube, because he costs so much. Crap...he really belongs in this spot, doesn't he? I suppose I could get another Yavimaya Elder to save on cost, but now that I realized Rofellos I'll always want him here.

EDIT: X costs are considered {0} in every zone outside of the stack, so they aren't breaking the rule (I suppose I jumped to the assumption {0}{G} = {G} because of mathematics). If it would make you feel better, I'll specifically mention it in the original post.

EDIT2: I don't believe adding {X}{G} to the end of the changing to the word "include" in the first sentence is inherently changing the rule. {X}{G} is still CMC = 1 and you could technically cast any of those spells for a single {G}. I'm only changing it because the phrase "then its mana cost" doesn't have equivalent language which explains the allowance of {X}{G}. Converted mana cost is only a number without color, and mana cost is exactly what is printed on the card; however, X spells are fluid in terms of cost and the language for my rule really should reflect that. I can't think of what that might look like, so adding {X}{G} is my solution. Because for some reason I decided to not read the second sentence and realize I solved that problem already.

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Last edited by Segrus on 2014-May-19 9:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Solid Green Devotion: Polukranos
AgePosted: 2014-May-19 8:28 am 

Joined: 2011-Apr-15 8:34 pm
Age: Drake
Silklash Spider for anti-aircraft...


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 Post subject: Re: Solid Green Devotion: Polukranos
AgePosted: 2014-May-19 9:25 am 
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Joined: 2012-Nov-27 4:39 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Midgard
maiden77 wrote:
That said I agree that Wolfbriar Elemental is an absolute house, with or without token support...

Perhaps, but I don't know if it's entirely the right card for this deck. It doesn't really have any synergy with any other card in the deck, and most of the cards which don't are big baddies. The difference between the other baddies and Wolfbriar is I can grab a lot of the other ones with Natural Order or cheat their cost with Lure of Prey.

It is on my radar, but I think I want to try other cards before this one.
paloflimdul wrote:
Silklash Spider for anti-aircraft...

I briefly mentioned Silklash Spider in my notes near the bottom of the original post. I've played Silklash Spider in several EDH decks before, but I've never been all that impressed with the card. Too many times it has been useful for only a single creature and then effectively becomes a 2/7 wall. I can never seem to hit the mother load and punish someone sporting Wonder. It is my feeling there are smaller, less-mana intensive cards for this purpose.

Also, I'm liking the idea of getting Jugan into this list first and seeing how it flies.

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