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 Post subject: Heroic Thraximundar?
AgePosted: 2014-Apr-28 5:38 pm 
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Joined: 2012-Nov-27 4:39 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Midgard
I am more or less impressed with how powerful a dedicated Heroic deck can be in EDH (see Antis' THIS IS AKROS! deck--it's brutal). So impressed, in fact, I really wanted to try it in other colors. The R/W combination with Anax and Cymede is definitely strong, but I want to know how strong it could be without having to resign myself to those two colors. Alas, the beginning of my pursuit brought me almost immediately to the Grixis colors. This is not to say the Green and White Heroic cards are terrible, but that I felt between a counter spell shield and the card advantage generated under a control shell from Heroic effects would be stellar. Add Thraximundar to this concoction, and you get the early game control shell/card advantage backed up by an incredibly powerful finisher.

There are currently 20 Heroic cards in the Grixis colors:
1. Agent of the Fates--Sweet; this one's going to be great!
2. Akroan Conscriptor--Would definitely help with some blow-outs for the unprepared opponent, but the initial cost is a little worrisome
3. Akroan Crusader--Not a favorite, but chump blockers could be necessary
4. Akroan Line Breaker--Would be great if it gave other things intimidate, otherwise isn't worth it
5. Arena Athlete--One of the cards which got me excited; the effect isn't amazing, but it can help make combat a nightmare
6. Artisan of Forms--Surprisingly very good; doubles as either an additional Heroic, or as the most powerful creature an opponent controls
7. Ashiok's Adept--Probably pretty great to damage a lot of other people's plans
8. Battlefield Thaumaturge--This is so juicy, and will probably change up the deck some once Journey into Nyx is released
9. Bloodcrazed Hoplite--Probably a meta card
10. Chorus of the Tides--The Scry really helps get this deck the cards it needs
11. Labyrinth Champion--Small burn isn't always helpful, but can really hurt Green decks hoping to generate tons of mana with little dudes
12. Meletis Astronomer--Pass; restricting this deck to only enchantments would be a terrible idea
13. Mindreaver--Eh? It's okay, but I think the ability doesn't do enough in EDH
14. Sage of Hours--Particularly good at making me even more of a target than I will be already
15. Satyr Hoplite--Aaaaaaaand no.
16. Tormented Hero--Lifegain can be an issue, so it'll probably go in
17. Triton Cavalry--See Meletis Astronomer
18. Triton Fortune Hunter--YES.
19. War-Wing Siren--I'm fairly wishy-washy on this one
20. Wavecrash Triton--A fairly strong card to control combat


By my estimate, about thirteen of these are going to be really good for the deck. HUH? JUST 13? Maybe 15, if I really wanted to. Targeted clone effects are so, so handy. :D

Commander:
Thraximundar

Creatures: 22
Agadeem Occultist
Agent of Erebos
Agent of the Fates
Artisan of Forms
Battlefield Thaumaturge
Chasm Guide
Dack's Duplicate
Dimir Doppelganger
Firemantle Mage
Hagra Diabolist
Kazuul Warlord
Labryinth Champion
Nightscape Familiar
Ondu Champion
Phyrexian Metamorph
Sea Gate Loremaster
Seascape Aerialist
Snapcaster Mage
Triton Fortune Hunter
Wavecrash Triton
Willbreaker
Zada, Hedron Grinder

Enchantments: 15
Aqueous Form
Bident of Thassa
Deviant Glee
Fallen Ideal
Followed Footsteps
Fool's Demise
Ghitu Firebreathing
Greed
Madcap Skills
Phyrexian Reclamation
Quicksilver Dagger
Rhystic Study
Shimmering Wings
Splinter Twin

Artifacts: 4
Armillary Sphere
Izzet Signet
Rakdos Signet
Wayfarer's Bauble

Instants: 11
Aerial Formation
Arcane Denial
Cackling Counterpart
Clockspinning
Comet Storm
Counterflux
Cruel Feeding
Dark Dabbling
Fated Infatuation
Memory Lapse
Triton Tactics

Sorceries: 8
Artful Dodge
Dreadbore
Ghostform
Hidden Strings
Pull from the Deep
Sever the Bloodline
Stolen Identity
Wave of Indifference

Lands: 40
Arcane Lighthouse
Bad River
Blood Crypt
City of Brass
Crosis's Catacombs
Crumbling Necropolis
Dragonskull Summit
Drowned Catacombs
Polluted Delta
Rocky Tar Pit
Scalding Tarn
Steam Vents
Strip Mine
Sulfur Falls
Sulfurous Springs
Tainted Isle
Temple of Deceit
Temple of Epiphany
Temple of Malice
Underground River
Watery Grave
5 x Swamp
5 x Mountain
9 x Island


Cipher cards--the copies of Cipher cards are created in the Exile Zone, and then cast from there. If the Cipher card targets, it will activate the Heroic ability. Isochron Scepter will work exactly the same way, but I don't currently have the Scepter in this deck because I didn't feel there are enough Instants to support its inclusion.

Heroic cards--I currently only have nine Heroic creatures, because I somehow didn't get all of them in the packs I got for Born of the Gods. I have to go to a store to get them, and add them when I figure out spots.

Artifact ramp--I don't know yet whether I would rather have Sol Ring & Co. in here rather than the few ramp I do have. Fortunately, testing has shown this few to work just fine for now. It'll probably be evaluated again each time I play the deck.

Other cards--this includes the removal cards, counter spells, etc. I believe some amount of them are necessary for the deck to run smoothly. There's a decent amount of draw in the deck (more or less), and it hasn't been an issue: meaning running out of spells which activate the Heroic ability.

Buyback cards--there are more of these I just don't own, but I think there's probably two or three which would fit nicely in the deck to reduce the amount of draw I require to keep the deck running at high speed.

A lot of the cards in the deck serve dual purposes, so that might catch you off guard. For instance, Nightbird's Clutches is an excellent example of a dual purpose card: activate two Heroic abilities, activate one Heroic and make an opponent vulnerable, or clear multiple creatures out of the way. And you get to do it twice! Some are not quite as good as this (Chain Stasis being one of them, so it'll probably be the first to come out), but try to keep this in mind.
___________________________________

I'm convinced this deck is not tuned perfectly, and but the goal is still "casual yet competitive." So I welcome suggestions and hope to make the deck play out better and better. Hopefully it'll see some action in the GAME THREAD, and then direct proof of how well or poorly a particular card performs.

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Last edited by Segrus on 2015-Nov-04 10:50 am, edited 7 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Heroic Thraximundar?
AgePosted: 2014-Apr-29 4:00 am 

Joined: 2012-Oct-09 1:35 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Stoke-On-Trent, England, UK
The main problem I have with your plan is I HATE THRAXIMUNDAR haha. I just think hes a right royal prick! Its so annoying after a board wipe to replay general or something and have it sacced to thraxi, its very griefer and unfun, my friend ended up switching to Garga Zol or whatever her name is and its less horrible when people are trying to rebuild a field post board wipe, its almost too easy in Grixis colours, wait for a field to happen, wrath, attack 3 times and win. meh. blergh. errrr. and so on.

Personal hatred aside I like your idea and think it may be cool, i would just prefer to see a different general at the helm! lol

If I saw it in the gaming thread I would probs play dragons or something with a bit more control to defend against the general, the haste and saccing on attack is so good its just hard to combat, making it unfun, and in blue, the least fun colour to compete against, just makes the feeling worse IMO. This is just me though, our playgroup has played for 5-6 years and have gone through a lot of changes to get to where we are today with more casual decks.

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 Post subject: Re: Heroic Thraximundar?
AgePosted: 2014-Apr-29 5:50 am 
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Joined: 2012-Nov-27 4:39 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Midgard
That's too bad. I really, really like the artwork on Thraximundar, and have an itch I want to scratch of making a decent Thraxi deck (the only other *real* Thraximundar deck I've built was a Zombie Tribal EDH deck for my wife, and she barely played it or liked it--its track record for doing well was abysmal). Thraxi certainly is particularly brutal, but he is at 7 CMC to begin with. Bump him off the table twice with Swords to Plowshares or some other kill spells (as others have been suggesting in other threads, spot removal is scarcely played anymore, which isn't a good thing), and his casting cost being nigh unbearable to pay. He's no Edric.

The other Grixis legends don't particularly impress me for this deck. Tetsuo Umezawa would be a terrible idea. Sol'kanar is meh. Sedris doesn't really fit without a lot more creatures. Nekusar would just be an over-costed Jace Beleren in most cases (since I likely won't care too much about trying to deal damage with him). Mishra,"? Pfft. If I wanted to play Lord of Tresserhorn, I would have to dedicate more slots to countering his ETB effect, because I will never have enough creatures to sacrifice. Jeleva is pretty similar to Sedris and Nekusar, in that this isn't really the right deck for her. And while Crosis, Gwendlyn, and Nicol Bolas are certainly strong cards, I don't know how much I want to get into forcing people to discard their hands. It tends to upset people a lot, even though Gwendlyn wouldn't be a *terrible* choice for the deck. That leaves Garza Zol and Thraxi. I would rather choose Thraxi for two reasons: 1) Garza Zol is a hideous wench; 2) Thraxi has no natural evasion. A lot of the cards I could put into this deck involve granting some form of evasion--usually unblockable--and it would be wasted on Garza Zol.

Basically this: there's no wrath effects or additional sacrifice effects. There currently isn't any cards giving additional combat steps. Attacking three times to kill one person seems reasonable, considering the number of generals who can generate lethal in a single attack without too much trouble. If it really, really, really, REALLY bothers enough people, then I'll consider switching out Thraxi for that group.

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 Post subject: Re: Heroic Thraximundar?
AgePosted: 2014-Apr-29 6:58 am 

Joined: 2012-Oct-09 1:35 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Stoke-On-Trent, England, UK
That is just my personal take on a friend that ruined thraxi for me haha. He didn't even do it on purpose, it just naturally devolved in many games to, 'o wrath, i play my general and swing and you sac yours leaving you with nothing each turn and top decking land'. but his decks are a bit boring with far too many wraths, i actually called him on it once and started playing grave hate to control his wrath.dec strat to stop him just castings mass res to win.

Your build sounds much less ass hole than his lol, and I will always like to play against new decks, I just thought I would share my experience of what and ass hat the guy can be. Agreed that Garza Zol is the ugliest card ever printed too haha.

I may learn to enjoy the guy, but I have however, learnt to distrust goblins and Nin thanks to Antis haha. I may need to bring my decks up slightly if i get owned that hard a couple more times haha :-P

To be fair yours will be a good unique take on Thraxi too so that will always be fun to play against. I might build a new deck to play in the next gaming thread or something. Not sure....I am cubing this weekend again so I need to remember to keep my deck to play on here. Last time I played BUGW Nephilim Witch-Maw Nephilim which was actually really fun, I might rebuild that list on Tappedout to play too. (if people don't mind nephilim commander of course! with zero counter manipulation to ruin the commander counter accrusion he does btw)

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 Post subject: Re: Heroic Thraximundar?
AgePosted: 2014-Apr-29 8:11 am 
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Joined: 2012-Nov-27 4:39 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Midgard
I don't think the GAME THREAD will mind a Nephilim, just like it would probably be fine to see Sid the Chicken's fire-breathing hippo.

Suggestions--anyone?

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 Post subject: Re: Heroic Thraximundar?
AgePosted: 2014-Apr-29 10:36 am 
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Joined: 2011-Jan-02 5:25 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Costa La Haya, capital del ducado Holanda
This deck looks pretty cool, although most of the cards are too new for me to be familiar with. One card I particularly like is Agent of the Fates: I've been figuring out how I can put this in my Ramses Overdark assassin ninja morph shapeshifter tribal deck. That's pretty tough, because there's not much in there that can target while casted. It's not as if the deck is intended to be any good, but it doesn't have to get any worse.

Anyway... in that deck are two cards you might enjoy: Flight of Fancy and Casting of Bones. Perhaps you'll like Shade's Form, but without Ramses that's probably not that good. A personal favorite of mine is Crown of the Ages: it can be pretty funny if you run a good amount of aura's. Unlikely to be any good in your deck, but I like namedropping.

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 Post subject: Re: Heroic Thraximundar?
AgePosted: 2014-Apr-29 10:45 am 
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Joined: 2012-Nov-27 4:39 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Midgard
Shabbaman wrote:
This deck looks pretty cool, although most of the cards are too new for me to be familiar with. One card I particularly like is Agent of the Fates: I've been figuring out how I can put this in my Ramses Overdark assassin ninja morph shapeshifter tribal deck. That's pretty tough, because there's not much in there that can target while casted. It's not as if the deck is intended to be any good, but it doesn't have to get any worse.

Stolen Identity. No, seriously. If you can get even one unblockable creature with this thing, the copies are cast from exile and you can keep targeting Agent of the Fates for additional copies of him. The cool thing is there's likely to be a lot of other targets in your deck for Stolen Identity, so you won't be running a bad card just for Agent of the Fates.
Shabbaman wrote:
Anyway... in that deck are two cards you might enjoy: Flight of Fancy and Casting of Bones. Perhaps you'll like Shade's Form, but without Ramses that's probably not that good. A personal favorite of mine is Crown of the Ages: it can be pretty funny if you run a good amount of aura's. Unlikely to be any good in your deck, but I like namedropping.

Yeah, I don't know if I want to go full-enchantment with this deck, since I'll likely be opening myself up to an incredible amount of card disadvantage. I already have an Anax and Cymede Enchantment deck, and it suffers from it despite having Enchantress effects and other Enchantment support from White.

That's not to say I don't want any enchantments in the deck, but I feel like they either have to return to my hand somehow or be incredibly good.

EDIT: Also, thanks for the compliment about the deck.

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 Post subject: Re: Heroic Thraximundar?
AgePosted: 2014-Apr-29 1:19 pm 
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Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Costa La Haya, capital del ducado Holanda
Stolen Identity, I think that's something I can work with. Thanks! Another option you could explore is the death triggers you'll get from Thrax and the Agent. Harvester of Souls is a card I'm very fond of, and perhaps something like Massacre Wurm can ping someone and occasionally save your butt from token swarms.

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 Post subject: Re: Heroic Thraximundar?
AgePosted: 2014-Apr-29 8:07 pm 
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Joined: 2012-Nov-27 4:39 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Midgard
Shabbaman wrote:
Stolen Identity, I think that's something I can work with. Thanks! Another option you could explore is the death triggers you'll get from Thrax and the Agent. Harvester of Souls is a card I'm very fond of, and perhaps something like Massacre Wurm can ping someone and occasionally save your butt from token swarms.

Harvester of Souls is probably pretty good, as card draw will help me get into more Heroic cards. Massacre Wurm is a great card, but I'm concerned it's not doing me enough without more killing potential in the deck. I'm not saying this deck can't kill creature, it just can't kill consistently enough to warrant the 2 life every once in a while. While the card advantage, even one or two cards a game will be enough for Harvester of Souls to find a place, the 2 life will probably be too infrequent without an opponent's deck trying to take advantage of a sacrifice outlet.

I have drawn this conclusion from having tested the deck a few times. It is currently built to avoid combat by preventing blocking, making unblockable, tapping creatures down, or super-tapping creatures.

So...speaking of cards--again--which pull double duty in the deck...

Clockspinning doesn't require a counter to be on the target permanent. :D
-Planeswalker
-General
-Heroic abilities
-Suspended card
It does SO MUCH.

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 Post subject: Re: Heroic Thraximundar?
AgePosted: 2014-May-03 12:54 pm 
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Joined: 2011-Nov-16 1:14 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Prague, Heart of Europe
Segrus wrote:
I am more or less impressed with how powerful a dedicated Heroic deck can be in EDH (see Antis' THIS IS AKROS! deck--it's brutal).
Oh my, you're too kind :oops:

Hey, man! Just found this (haven't been to the decklists for quite some time). Thanks for the credit, though I do believe you're exaggerating.

I find this deck idea very interesting. Blue and black heroes offer some cool control options and card advantage. It is, in fact, a kind of reverse attitude to my Anax and Cymede - I play only four heroic creatures in there, but one of them is my general. You play 14, but your general isn't a hero. I'd really like to see how well this'll work out. (That reminds me, I've made a few changes to the list recently and need to test them out.)
maiden77 wrote:
The main problem I have with your plan is I HATE THRAXIMUNDAR haha.
So you won't mind if I revive (haha) my Thrax Zombie tribal just for you, will you? :twisted:
Segrus wrote:
He is at 7 CMC to begin with. Bump him off the table twice with Swords to Plowshares or some other kill spells (as others have been suggesting in other threads, spot removal is scarcely played anymore, which isn't a good thing), and his casting cost being nigh unbearable to pay.
Unless you run Rooftop Storm :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

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tempesteye wrote:
In my early teens I was a Timmy.
In my late teens I was a Spike.
In my 20's I was a Johnny.
Now, I just like to play.
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 Post subject: Re: Heroic Thraximundar?
AgePosted: 2014-May-03 1:27 pm 
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Joined: 2012-Nov-27 4:39 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Midgard
Antis wrote:
Segrus wrote:
I am more or less impressed with how powerful a dedicated Heroic deck can be in EDH (see Antis' THIS IS AKROS! deck--it's brutal).
Oh my, you're too kind :oops:

Hey, man! Just found this (haven't been to the decklists for quite some time). Thanks for the credit, though I do believe you're exaggerating.

I find this deck idea very interesting. Blue and black heroes offer some cool control options and card advantage. It is, in fact, a kind of reverse attitude to my Anax and Cymede - I play only four heroic creatures in there, but one of them is my general. You play 14, but your general isn't a hero. I'd really like to see how well this'll work out. (That reminds me, I've made a few changes to the list recently and need to test them out.)

Then again, Anax and Cymede does just up and Reckless Charge, Reckless Charge, Double Cleave, gg? mostly out of nowhere. This deck can play out several ways, and I look forward to getting to play it.

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 Post subject: Re: Heroic Thraximundar?
AgePosted: 2014-May-04 2:06 am 

Joined: 2012-Oct-09 1:35 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Stoke-On-Trent, England, UK
Antis wrote:
Segrus wrote:
I am more or less impressed with how powerful a dedicated Heroic deck can be in EDH (see Antis' THIS IS AKROS! deck--it's brutal).
Oh my, you're too kind :oops:

Hey, man! Just found this (haven't been to the decklists for quite some time). Thanks for the credit, though I do believe you're exaggerating.

I find this deck idea very interesting. Blue and black heroes offer some cool control options and card advantage. It is, in fact, a kind of reverse attitude to my Anax and Cymede - I play only four heroic creatures in there, but one of them is my general. You play 14, but your general isn't a hero. I'd really like to see how well this'll work out. (That reminds me, I've made a few changes to the list recently and need to test them out.)
maiden77 wrote:
The main problem I have with your plan is I HATE THRAXIMUNDAR haha.
So you won't mind if I revive (haha) my Thrax Zombie tribal just for you, will you? :twisted:
Segrus wrote:
He is at 7 CMC to begin with. Bump him off the table twice with Swords to Plowshares or some other kill spells (as others have been suggesting in other threads, spot removal is scarcely played anymore, which isn't a good thing), and his casting cost being nigh unbearable to pay.
Unless you run Rooftop Storm :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:


If two thraxi decks come at me, i will play my mono red burn, no creatures to sac and i will burn all the things! lol

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 Post subject: Re: Heroic Thraximundar?
AgePosted: 2014-May-04 3:03 am 
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Joined: 2011-Nov-16 1:14 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Prague, Heart of Europe
Segrus wrote:
Then again, Anax and Cymede does just up and Reckless Charge, Reckless Charge, Double Cleave, gg? mostly out of nowhere. This deck can play out several ways, and I look forward to getting to play it.
More like MAD SKILLZ, Rally the Righteous, Psychotic Fury, but yeah, pretty much :) We have to pit these two against each other sometime!

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tempesteye wrote:
In my early teens I was a Timmy.
In my late teens I was a Spike.
In my 20's I was a Johnny.
Now, I just like to play.
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 Post subject: Re: Heroic Thraximundar?
AgePosted: 2014-May-05 1:52 am 

Joined: 2012-Oct-09 1:35 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Stoke-On-Trent, England, UK
Antis wrote:
Segrus wrote:
Then again, Anax and Cymede does just up and Reckless Charge, Reckless Charge, Double Cleave, gg? mostly out of nowhere. This deck can play out several ways, and I look forward to getting to play it.
More like MAD SKILLZ, Rally the Righteous, Psychotic Fury, but yeah, pretty much :) We have to pit these two against each other sometime!


When this happens we need Sid the Chicken to narrate and generally comment randomly, I will be the ref!

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 Post subject: Re: Heroic Thraximundar?
AgePosted: 2014-May-06 6:44 am 
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Location: Midgard
maiden77 wrote:
Antis wrote:
Segrus wrote:
Then again, Anax and Cymede does just up and Reckless Charge, Reckless Charge, Double Cleave, gg? mostly out of nowhere. This deck can play out several ways, and I look forward to getting to play it.
More like MAD SKILLZ, Rally the Righteous, Psychotic Fury, but yeah, pretty much :) We have to pit these two against each other sometime!


When this happens we need Sid the Chicken to narrate and generally comment randomly, I will be the ref!

Lol, perhaps.

Journey into Nix changes:

- Swan Song
- Withdraw
- Akroan Crusader
- Reality Strobe
- Mogis' Marauder
- Relic of Progenitus
- Chain Stasis

+ Battlefield Thaumaturge
+ Pull from the Deep
+ Aerial Formation
+ Cruel Feeding
+ Rouse the Mob
+ Akroan Line Breaker
+ Agent of Erebos

I'm not claiming these are going to end up being the best changes; however, I want to see how good the Strive cards end up being. I only managed one Twinflame, so I'll likely make that chance when I find another one. On second thought, Blinding Flare probably should have gotten in here, but I can't recall why I didn't. Finally, Harness by Force isn't a card I would use to target my own creatures, so I don't think I'll put it into this deck.

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