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AgePosted: 2008-Dec-23 6:53 am 

Joined: 2008-Dec-16 11:21 pm
Age: Wyvern
:twisted: what about mindslaver? that card always wrecks house in my edh group generals: multani, molimo


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 Post subject: Riftsweeper, Divinity of Pride, Test of Endurance
AgePosted: 2008-Dec-29 8:28 am 

Joined: 2008-Dec-28 10:31 pm
Age: Egg
Ok so this is just a suggestion and I would enjoy constructive criticism to my ideas.

The idea has to deal with the rule "If a General would be put into a graveyard from anywhere, its owner may remove it from the game instead. (This is a replacement effect.. the creature never goes to the graveyard and will not trigger abilities on going to the graveyard) " and the banning of riftsweeper. The point of this is the flavor of EDH is the only place the general should be is in play or removed from game. In certain cases when cards kill the general you can allow them to go to the graveyard instead of removing them from the game. I think this should hold true for the library also. Try and prove me wrong but I cannot think of anything that could abuse this if it were a rule. (If a General would be put into a graveyard or library from anywhere, its owner may remove it from the game instead.) Next do you think EDH should add "hand" to this list of places you could RFG your general?


The next topic which I would like to discuss is Divinity of Pride, Test of Endurance, Transcendence, and Rune-Tail, Kitsune Ascendant. These are a few of the cards that deal with life totals in magic. With a one on one format of 40 life these cards become much more powerful than intended. I propose to errata these cards to make them work as they were created for a 20 life environment. Example, in a normal 20 life setting Divinity of Pride would need to make 2 swings or other life gain to become and 8/8. To replicate this in EDH all you would need to do is errata the card from 25 life to 45. Test of Endurance would go to 70 life, Rune-Tail, Kitsune Ascendant is 50 life, and Transcendence is 40 life. I believe this fixes the problem of the cards being overpowered and returns the cards to the power level intended.

I would like to know if you agree or disagree, then what could improve the argument or what is wrong (and why).


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AgePosted: 2008-Dec-29 11:02 am 
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Joined: 2008-Apr-09 1:32 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
All of these points have been discussed at one point or another somewhere else in the forum. In most cases, the cards were banned (Riftsweeper) or not errata'ed (Divinity of Pride) for the sake of keeping things simple. It is much more complicated and difficult to have to remember a list of cards which have exceptions in EDH simply because the cards weren't designed to accommodate EDH rules.

Making a General go into the library seems to be the only "permanent" way to get rid of a General (unless you allow AWOL) and there are some Generals whom get re-cast too easily and whom I would not like to see often. Doran and Zur are some examples.

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AgePosted: 2009-Jan-27 12:38 pm 
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Joined: 2009-Jan-25 9:01 pm
Age: Wyvern
Not to beat a dead horse here but Myogin of Nights Reach really needs to go. Outside of countering it or playing subpar cards like sudden death or stifle you can't stop it. My group plays 4-5 player FFA. its not hard to board wipe then play nights reach. Last game it was Urborg/Coffers add x mana play Myogin, use it play Kresh, play plauge wind..... win.


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AgePosted: 2009-Jan-27 12:53 pm 
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Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Calgary, AB
Pandabob wrote:
Last game it was Urborg/Coffers add x mana play Myogin, use it play Kresh, play plauge wind..... win.


...

I've read that 5 times now and every time I do it makes me smile. That sounds like EXACTLY what an EDH win should be. An 8 mana creature followed by a combo, consisting of a 5 mana creature and 9 mana sorcery, which creates a 50/50 guy to smash face with? Dude that's AWESOME!

G

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AgePosted: 2009-Jan-27 3:01 pm 
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Joined: 2008-Jul-09 11:42 pm
Age: Drake
Pandabob wrote:
Not to beat a dead horse here but Myogin of Nights Reach really needs to go. Outside of countering it or playing subpar cards like sudden death or stifle you can't stop it. My group plays 4-5 player FFA. its not hard to board wipe then play nights reach. Last game it was Urborg/Coffers add x mana play Myogin, use it play Kresh, play plauge wind..... win.


You know whats a pretty good answer to all the Myojin and lots of other stuff? Voidmage Husher.

He even beats for 2.


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AgePosted: 2009-Jan-27 4:36 pm 
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Joined: 2008-Apr-15 9:42 am
Age: Drake
Location: Waterloo, ON
Saw a good one the other night, where someone un-morphed Vesuvan Shapeshifter to kill the Myojin with the legend rule.
Epic stuff.
Couldn't even be responded to with the activation!

_________________
Generals:
Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed; Wort, Boggart Auntie; Jhoira of the Ghitu; Multani, Maro-Sorcerer; Rafiq of the Many; Heartless Hidetsugu; Wort, the Raidmother; Braids, Cabal Minion; Vendillion Clique; Captain Sisay;


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AgePosted: 2009-Jan-27 4:48 pm 

Joined: 2008-Jan-25 8:26 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Calgary
Myojin is cool that way because it's greedy. Some players are smart enough to play him and pop him right away. But there are reasons not to..

Like, you want an indestructible blocker (that blocks Fear dudes) for the rest of the current turn set, then you'll strip all hands at the last players End of Turn.

Or you want to hit the control player AFTER they draw for the turn, inside their draw step.

Or you have to wait until the player with Mind's Eye out is tapped out.

And suddenly you find yourself on the wrong end of a Sudden Death / Vesuvan Shapeshifter / Word of Seizing / etc.


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AgePosted: 2009-Feb-02 1:48 pm 
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Joined: 2007-Mar-28 10:17 am
Age: Drake
Location: Oberlin, OH, USA
Genomancer would know something about getting greedy with the black Myojin. We were playing 3-on-3 team at PT Hollywood and winning. I figured we can ice the game right there, so I drop black Myojin. I ask Gavin if I should pop the counter right away. He decides we should get greedy and pop it later. The third teammate agrees.

The middle opponent plays Word of Seizing, pops the counter, and hands me back the Myojin.

We didn't win that game.

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AgePosted: 2009-Feb-03 12:06 am 

Joined: 2009-Jan-04 3:30 am
Age: Drake
Location: Oost-vlaanderen, België
LOL!

word of seizing is so cool! play it in every red highlander.

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Niv-mizzet, the firemind
Arcanis the omnipotent
Visara the dreadful
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 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2009-Feb-11 10:23 am 

Joined: 2009-Feb-11 9:58 am
Age: Drake
Hey guys! This is my first post to these boards, but I've been a lurker for a while. My playgroup plays weekly EDH sessions, usually 1-3 games with 7-12 people. Lots of fun! Based on these games, I have a suggestion on a possible card - or rather, type of card - that may warrant the banhammer.

The cards in question are Meddling Mage, Voidstone Gargoyle, Declaration of Naught, and even (to a lesser extent) Pithing needle. Basically, any such cards that hose a card by a specific name. Null chamber is especially nasty, since two players can easily call a one-shot truce and lock out two other generals.

It's not so much that these cards are overly powerful; it's more that they seem to be against the spirit of EDH. Your general can be killed, countered, stolen, whatever, but to completely eradicate the ability to play it seems against the spirit of the format. Especially since there is no guesswork, unlike with normal magic - you know what generals people are playing, making a turn-2 declaration of naught naming a red general somewhat sad.

Yes, it's certainly possible to win against these cards, even with your general named. It's not a matter of power - it's a matter of fun. Whether I can win or not, I generally sat down to the EDH table in order to smash face or perform cool tricks with the aid of an awesome legendary creature. Whole decks can be built around a legend's theme, and even if you can win, it's just not as much fun to see your leader locked out early.

Voidstone Gargoyle and Meddling Mage are creatures, so they're not as bad. Even if YOU can't kill them, creatures just tend to die a lot anyway, due to the mass removal that gets tossed around.

Declaration of Naught and Null Chamber are the real culprits here, with the Chamber being the worse of the two. Enchantments are less likely to randomly be destroyed, and if these are named against a red/black general, there is little that can be done. Even against a green/white general, there may not be the destruction immediately at hand.

The fact that a major factor of these cards' normal use - that is, that without outside help from other cards you don't usually know what to name - is moot when you know what general people are playing means that these cards may well be unfun for the format. Our group stopped using them, and we were quite happy to see them go.

So, just some thoughts! Just one man's voice, is all. Thanks for your time, everyone, and enjoy your games!

- Johnny

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 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2009-Feb-11 11:39 am 
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Joined: 2007-Sep-21 8:22 am
Age: Elder Dragon
FponkDarnoc wrote:
when you know what general people are playing means that these cards may well be unfun for the format. Our group stopped using them, and we were quite happy to see them go.


Well that's the whole idea of a metagame, you either decide to address weaknesses that your deck has to a particular metagame or you make your own set of house rules to restrict the metagame and allow decks to have strategic weaknesses. IMHO every edh deck should have access to a toolbox of answers and not be some focused bombs over baghdad deck or a suicide combo deck . . . that in itself weakens the metagame and allows interactivity. When you drop that requirement, you'd better have some other power restrictions in place at least informally or you're setting yourself up for a all-offense no-defense EDH game...which may be exactly what you wanted to play in the first place! Personally that's too luck-oriented for me but hey it's like playing Omaha instead of Texas Hold-Em so w/e. I play tons of artifact hate and land hate because I decided to play Texas.


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 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2009-Mar-13 7:21 am 

Joined: 2009-Feb-13 1:50 pm
Age: Wyvern
After seeing it a few times, I'm starting to think Magister Sphinx should get the axe. Setting a life total to 10 is like dealing 30 damage, and it's very easily tutorable and abusable with Sharuum, one of the more popular generals.

And yes, I absolutely did lose to Magister Sphinx last night.

The only argument I can see for not banning it is that it keeps infinite life combos in check. However, being able to Tinker for it, then recur it later on seems incredibly abusive in a multiplayer, 40-life format.

I actually don't think it's that bad in 1v1, but when 4 other players get a crack at your 10 life right away, you become easy pickings/low-hanging fruit/etc., and it tends to do exactly what multiplayer shouldn't do: kick out one player early while everyone else plays.


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AgePosted: 2009-Mar-13 9:25 am 
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Joined: 2008-Mar-24 12:14 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Oakland, CA
Snowden wrote:
After seeing it a few times, I'm starting to think Magister Sphinx should get the axe. Setting a life total to 10 is like dealing 30 damage, and it's very easily tutorable and abusable with Sharuum, one of the more popular generals.

And yes, I absolutely did lose to Magister Sphinx last night.

The only argument I can see for not banning it is that it keeps infinite life combos in check. However, being able to Tinker for it, then recur it later on seems incredibly abusive in a multiplayer, 40-life format.

I actually don't think it's that bad in 1v1, but when 4 other players get a crack at your 10 life right away, you become easy pickings/low-hanging fruit/etc., and it tends to do exactly what multiplayer shouldn't do: kick out one player early while everyone else plays.

I have to agree with this. Sphinx is a super Door to Nothingness in this format that costs less, can bey played and used in the same turn, and leave you with a 5/5 flyer.

It's also too easily abused with Tinker.

I believe it should be banned. It's almost identical in power level to Kokusho.


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AgePosted: 2009-Mar-13 9:49 am 
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Joined: 2008-Apr-15 9:42 am
Age: Drake
Location: Waterloo, ON
I disagree on the Sphinx issue.
Yes, it is powerful, but it only hits one person.
It's also easy to deal with Sphinx recursion with gy hate or StP effects.

Also, if someone hits you with a Sphinx trigger, and every other person on the table kills you for having only 10 life, they really need to look into their 'threat management' skills. Unless you deserved it. Then... tough shit.

_________________
Generals:
Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed; Wort, Boggart Auntie; Jhoira of the Ghitu; Multani, Maro-Sorcerer; Rafiq of the Many; Heartless Hidetsugu; Wort, the Raidmother; Braids, Cabal Minion; Vendillion Clique; Captain Sisay;


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