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 Post subject: Re: September Ban List Discussion
AgePosted: 2012-Sep-19 5:20 am 
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Joined: 2009-Jun-19 6:32 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Lappeenranta, Finland
Well, I'll have to re-evaluate Heat Shimmer and all the Threaten effects I'm playing. I truly enjoyed abusing Primeval Titan, and I didn't even have one in any of my decks. Kokusho I am going to play, but trying to steal one from another player just isn't quite the same as Titan, mostly because people are more likely to be prepared with a sac outlet.

Worldfire will not be missed by anyone who enjoys playing Magic. Good riddance.


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 Post subject: Re: September Ban List Discussion
AgePosted: 2012-Sep-19 6:01 am 

Joined: 2010-Oct-26 5:52 am
Age: Dragon
primetime is finally gone, THANK GOD.

_________________
Maluko wrote:
We need a clear set of objective rules so that everybody always knows what to expect, and how to prepare for it. As of now, I think I spend more time arguing with players about the format than I do playing fun and interactive games of Commander. And last time I read, this was not the format's purpose.

QFT


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 Post subject: Re: September Ban List Discussion
AgePosted: 2012-Sep-19 6:18 am 
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Joined: 2008-Mar-24 12:14 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Oakland, CA
Filth wrote:
Kokusho I am going to play, but trying to steal one from another player just isn't quite the same as Titan, mostly because people are more likely to be prepared with a sac outlet.

Just as long as the sac outlet isn't Phyrexian Altar or Volrath's Curse (among a few others), you can still snag it with Word of Seizing.


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 Post subject: Re: September Ban List Discussion
AgePosted: 2012-Sep-19 10:00 am 
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Joined: 2010-May-09 10:39 am
Age: Elder Dragon
On the topic of not banning because of forwat warp, Emrakul has some AVON she'd like to sell you.

On PT, about TIME. Commander had become incredibly monotonous with PT, Coffers/Urborg, Land-D Lands, blah blah. It eroded skill AND put the PT's controller far too ahead of the game. It was completely broken and fully deserved the ban-hammer, but good on the RC for actually letting it sit for a while before they came to a decision.

Worldfire, no one played it, no big loss.

Koko, going to be a pain to deal with but we'll see what happens. At leat he's still banned as a General so we'll just have to put extra graveyard hate in our decks.

_________________
Generals:
Jasmine Boreal - Flower power! Nature/Justice/Retribution themed casual fun.
Radha, Heir to Keld - All white-bordered!
Xantcha, Sleeper Agent - cEDH discard/attrition.
Pre-Modern:
A Denying Wind.
Duel Commander:
Nissa, Vastwoord Seer - Ramp ramp ramp into Ugin+Painter's Servant.
Kari Zev, Skyship Raider - Unbridled Aggro

Find me Saturdays at the Wizard's Tower - Ottawa and occasional Mondays at Westboro Legion for Duel Commander.


Last edited by CrazyPierre on 2012-Sep-19 12:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: September Ban List Discussion
AgePosted: 2012-Sep-19 11:55 am 

Joined: 2011-Sep-21 3:30 am
Age: Wyvern
intreped wrote:
Filth wrote:
Kokusho I am going to play, but trying to steal one from another player just isn't quite the same as Titan, mostly because people are more likely to be prepared with a sac outlet.

Just as long as the sac outlet isn't Phyrexian Altar or Volrath's Curse (among a few others), you can still snag it with Word of Seizing.


phyrexian tower is now the sauce I always knew it would be.


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 Post subject: Re: September Ban List Discussion
AgePosted: 2012-Sep-19 12:43 pm 
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Joined: 2011-May-09 12:01 pm
Age: Dragon
Now what am I gonna Bribery? :cry:

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Grimgrin, Corpse-Born - Zombie Tribal
Marton Stromgald - Token Beats
Mayael of the Anima - Fatty Boom Boom
Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius - Sorcery/Instant Control
Rasputin Dreamweaver - Blink
Teneb, the Harvester - Knight Tribal
Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter - Life Gain, Life Payment


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 Post subject: Re: September Ban List Discussion
AgePosted: 2012-Sep-19 12:57 pm 
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Joined: 2010-Aug-06 1:54 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: USA
KrosanGrip wrote:
Now what am I gonna Bribery? :cry:

Avacyn, Kokusho, Palinchron, Vigor, Storm Crow...

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A few of my EDH Generals:
~ Mayael the Anima - Mayael the 5-Power Stompy
~ Marath, Will of the Wild - An EDH Teacher deck (Tribal Beasts)
~ Rhys the Redeemed - Tokens... Why do they keep coming!?
~ Bosh, Iron Golem - Legend of the Iron Giants
~ Damia, Sage of Stone - All Creatures Great & Small


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 Post subject: Re: September Ban List Discussion
AgePosted: 2012-Sep-19 1:07 pm 
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Joined: 2008-Nov-08 5:27 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Canberra
I completely agree with the comparisons to recurring nightmare. This decision is consistent with the one that keeps RN on the ban list.

Clearly the number of decks that are about to change indicates the warp this card had.

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BAN WILLOW SATYR

DCI Level 1 Judge.


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 Post subject: Re: September Ban List Discussion
AgePosted: 2012-Sep-19 2:10 pm 

Joined: 2012-Mar-31 11:52 am
Age: Elder Dragon
TheDoctor wrote:
KrosanGrip wrote:
Now what am I gonna Bribery? :cry:

Avacyn, Kokusho, Palinchron, Vigor, Storm Crow...

Wait, didn't that get banned? I thought it created a perceived barrier to entry.


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 Post subject: Re: September Ban List Discussion
AgePosted: 2012-Sep-19 2:16 pm 

Joined: 2012-Sep-16 10:59 am
Age: Wyvern
I support all three decisions. Worldfire did not see much play in my area but any card with an effect that powerful should be banned. I am going to miss playing PT but completely understand the choice to ban him and think "Big Kooks" will be annoying but definitely acceptable since he is not the commander (unless someone tries to pull off a Rite of Replication combo or other silliness.)


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 Post subject: Re: September Ban List Discussion
AgePosted: 2012-Sep-19 2:23 pm 
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Joined: 2009-Aug-20 7:49 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Hampshire
Charles wrote:
(unless someone tries to pull off a Rite of Replication combo or other silliness.)

I say if you actually are allowed to keep Kokopuffs long enough to RoR it, you deserve the probable win that follows. And RoR on someone else's Koko is cool too. I know I've used it as a 9-mana spot removal.... "Rites Kicked on that guy's Prime Time?" "In response, swords it"

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"The President's job - and if someone sufficiently vain and stupid is picked he won't realize this - is not to wield power, but to draw attention away from it." -- Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide tot he Galaxy Radio Transcripts predicting the future.


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 Post subject: Re: September Ban List Discussion
AgePosted: 2012-Sep-19 2:51 pm 

Joined: 2008-Sep-12 8:43 pm
Age: Drake
Location: Madison, WI
onlainari wrote:
Clearly the number of decks that are about to change indicates the warp this card had.


It's no worse than if Sol Ring or Top got the boot.

I went through and changed up decks tonight that included PT. One was a total rebuild anyway and it freed up a slot for something else, one I just swapped out Kokusho, and another got dismantled for a likely conversion to Ghave once RTR comes out and I get some fun populate cards.

Animar is a bit trickier. I would prefer another ramp creature take his place, but I don't really have one that's not already in the deck.

The loss of PT also has me rethinking how many utility lands get slotted into decks. I may have to be pickier so I can make sure to have the right consistency in the mana base.

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Damia - Maga - Bolas - Karrthus - Karador


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 Post subject: Re: September Ban List Discussion
AgePosted: 2012-Sep-19 7:42 pm 

Joined: 2009-Nov-28 7:07 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Given the ease with which black can sac and rez, I am not looking forward to Kokushu's return. Several in my meta already run painful G/B sac strategies. GYH is not enough; GB is fairly resilient, with an ability to recover exiled cards, tutor any card, rez any creature, fetch any creature. I expect Kokushu to be gone again within 12 months.


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 Post subject: Re: September Ban List Discussion
AgePosted: 2012-Sep-19 7:55 pm 

Joined: 2009-Oct-28 10:55 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
green slime wrote:
Given the ease with which black can sac and rez, I am not looking forward to Kokushu's return. Several in my meta already run painful G/B sac strategies. GYH is not enough; GB is fairly resilient, with an ability to recover exiled cards, tutor any card, rez any creature, fetch any creature. I expect Kokushu to be gone again within 12 months.


Here's what you do. You see someone play Riftsweeper to get back Kokusho? You roll your eyes at them and ask them what the hell their problem is.

Graveyard hate is enough. In fact, it's the only thing that works...everyone knows that people will have their fingers on the sacrifice switch which you won't be able to respond to. But there's no way they're getting Koko out of the yard without giving you a chance to go NOPE, screwing their tempo and making them lose him forever (or until they Riftsweeper it and you need to roll your eyes).

Seriously, there's no deck that shouldn't have a few "exile target card in a graveyard" effects on tap. If they don't and Koko is a problem in their metagame, then they should adapt.

But if Kokusho is really the thing that starts people playing graveyard hate, then I don't know what kind of metagame you have. The graveyard is so juicy, it doesn't need Koko to need hate.


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 Post subject: Re: September Ban List Discussion
AgePosted: 2012-Sep-19 8:29 pm 

Joined: 2009-Nov-28 7:07 am
Age: Elder Dragon
It isn't the lack of graveyard hate, its the amount of graveyard hate hate. At what level does the counter - counter - counter war become trite?

Null Rod cancels most common GYH cards. The remaining Enchantments and creatures can be easily dealt with. Bojuka Bog is probably the most common, easily recurred, remaining threat to GY abusers.

"Exile" is fast becoming just another place some cards are put during the game. rolleyes not withstanding.


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