Login | Register


All times are UTC - 7 hours


It is currently 2019-Dec-12 11:57 pm




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 385 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 26  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Griselbrand.
AgePosted: 2012-Apr-12 10:40 pm 

Joined: 2011-Jul-10 2:52 pm
Age: Drake
I personally don't want to see it get banned, but what are the chances that griselbrand lasts more than a year off the ban list?

Is it really that much worse than bargain to make it 'fair'?


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Griselbrand.
AgePosted: 2012-Apr-12 11:06 pm 
User avatar

Joined: 2008-Nov-08 5:27 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Canberra
Well, it's worse than bargain, so it might not be banned.

Here are some reasons.

1. You have to draw the cards in chunks of 7. With bargain, people pay 39 life. With this guy you only pay 35 life.
2. Many people shy away from life payments in general, and lack of ubiquity is kinda sorta one reason things don't get banned.
3. If this guy is being used as a general you are restricted to mono black. This is the nail in the coffin for why he won't be just banned as a general. The other major nail for this one is his CMC.
4. Infinite combo is sooo much easier with cards other than an 8 mana creature.
5. The fact that it's easy to remove might make it less playable and thus not ruin any games. You get to draw the cards in response but he's probably going to be dead and it'll be no different that all those games where two people had consecrated sphinxes.

_________________
BAN WILLOW SATYR

DCI Level 1 Judge.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Griselbrand.
AgePosted: 2012-Apr-12 11:30 pm 
User avatar

Joined: 2010-Dec-14 11:11 pm
Age: Dragon
Firloz wrote:
I personally don't want to see it get banned, but what are the chances that griselbrand lasts more than a year off the ban list?

Is it really that much worse than bargain to make it 'fair'?


It is actually better as it is is much easier to recurr or cheat into play....


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Griselbrand.
AgePosted: 2012-Apr-13 12:25 am 

Joined: 2008-Sep-21 11:51 am
Age: Elder Dragon
we'll see what actually happens once he gets play tested for a bit. A set hasn't been printed that somefolks haven't yelped about a card that's going to break edh. That being said all the preators are still legal.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Griselbrand.
AgePosted: 2012-Apr-13 12:50 am 
User avatar

Joined: 2010-Dec-14 11:11 pm
Age: Dragon
odit wrote:
we'll see what actually happens once he gets play tested for a bit. A set hasn't been printed that somefolks haven't yelped about a card that's going to break edh. That being said all the preators are still legal.


I don't think it will break edh. There are already a ton of easy combo wins. Griselbrand is not gong to be any worse then those.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Griselbrand.
AgePosted: 2012-Apr-13 1:11 am 
User avatar

Joined: 2011-Mar-15 12:45 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Griselbrand as a general isn't so dangerous. What's dangerous is "turn 1, skip my land drop, discard Griselbrand to hand size, turn 2, swamp, Reanimate Griselbrand."

That said, I don't think he's going to be ban-worthy, just really annoying.

_________________
crokaycete wrote:
When casting Elephant Ambush, it is appropriate to yell "I was behind the tree, you stupid bastard" to announce the spell.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Griselbrand.
AgePosted: 2012-Apr-13 1:28 am 

Joined: 2011-Jul-10 2:52 pm
Age: Drake
well this is good to hear, it sounds like i will be able to turn necromancy into a draw seven for the forseeable future.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Griselbrand.
AgePosted: 2012-Apr-13 5:05 am 
User avatar

Joined: 2010-Dec-13 6:01 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Washington D.C.
He's going to be a combo house, that's for sure. I wouldn't mind seeing what people come up with.

I am going to try and pull off a Griselbrand, EoT draw a bunch of cards, then Sneak Attack on my turn and profit :)

EDIT: I think it would be hilarious if people starting running Stormseeker, Sudden Impact, and even Lightning Bolt in anticipation of someone paying nearly all of their life to draw their deck.

_________________
My decks on Tappedout.net


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Griselbrand.
AgePosted: 2012-Apr-13 6:20 am 
User avatar

Joined: 2011-Mar-15 12:45 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Superstrength79 wrote:
He's going to be a combo house, that's for sure. I wouldn't mind seeing what people come up with.

I am going to try and pull off a Griselbrand, EoT draw a bunch of cards, then Sneak Attack on my turn and profit :)

EDIT: I think it would be hilarious if people starting running Stormseeker, Sudden Impact, and even Lightning Bolt in anticipation of someone paying nearly all of their life to draw their deck.


Griselbrand player: "In response, One with Nothing." :trollface:

_________________
crokaycete wrote:
When casting Elephant Ambush, it is appropriate to yell "I was behind the tree, you stupid bastard" to announce the spell.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Griselbrand.
AgePosted: 2012-Apr-13 6:23 am 
User avatar

Joined: 2009-Jun-19 6:32 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Lappeenranta, Finland
pookel wrote:
Griselbrand as a general isn't so dangerous. What's dangerous is "turn 1, skip my land drop, discard Griselbrand to hand size, turn 2, swamp, Reanimate Griselbrand."


Maybe people will finally start playing graveyard hate.

Ah, who am I kidding. Doesn't matter how good the graveyard tricks or graveyard hate WotC prints are, that will never happen.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Griselbrand.
AgePosted: 2012-Apr-13 7:17 am 
User avatar

Joined: 2008-Aug-15 9:31 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Reasons he should be banned:

1) Unlike other combo cards, this guy provides both the means AND the ends to the combo. What I mean is that you could literally have NOTHING else, topdeck this guy, and then combo win that turn. Most combos require A + B. This guy + your life total are both A and B. That makes him unique as a combo piece.

2) Unlike Bargain, he's a creature. That makes him easier to cheat into play, easier to tutor for, and easier to recur.

3) The, "He's a creature and therefore easier to answer," argument doesn't hold weight since he's probably going to win before you even get another turn. Instant speed removal is responded to with appropriate amounts of, "Draw 7 in response."

Reasons he shouldn't be banned:

1) Again, he's a creature. He's also a pretty darn good one even if you play him "fair", especially since he doesn't skip your draw step and has lifelink. This MIGHT be what the overwhelming majority of people do with him: play him fair. I could see it being fair in Kalia, which tends to empty it's hand quickly.

2) To do the things I fear people are going to do with him, it requires a LOT of deck space. You're not playing combo Griselbrand by accident.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Griselbrand.
AgePosted: 2012-Apr-13 9:47 am 
User avatar

Joined: 2009-Jul-13 6:05 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Monmouth, OR
If Emrakul taught us anything, it's that people don't care what the mana cost of a creature is. They'll do whatever it takes to bypass it.

_________________
onlainari the ragequitter: http://www.mtgcommander.net/Forum/viewt ... 199#p72199

CommanderCast: Community, Strategy, and Technology: http://www.commandercast.com/

Occupy Kokusho


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Griselbrand.
AgePosted: 2012-Apr-13 10:17 am 
User avatar

Joined: 2011-Mar-15 12:45 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Filth wrote:
Maybe people will finally start playing graveyard hate.

Ah, who am I kidding. Doesn't matter how good the graveyard tricks or graveyard hate WotC prints are, that will never happen.

I once saw my turn 2 "Life from the Loam, no targets" answered with a turn 2 land drop of Bojuka Bog targeting me. :facepalm:

Still, even if everyone runs it, they don't always have it in hand at the right moment. I expect Griselbrand to be at least as annoying as Iona, especially in the hands of a Kaalia player. (IME, the only thing holding Kaalia back is usually a lack of cards in hand, so ...)

_________________
crokaycete wrote:
When casting Elephant Ambush, it is appropriate to yell "I was behind the tree, you stupid bastard" to announce the spell.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Griselbrand.
AgePosted: 2012-Apr-13 12:16 pm 
User avatar

Joined: 2009-Mar-31 8:25 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Zealand
First card in awhile that has admittedly raised my eyebrows.

I think, as others have said already, what may hold it back is that the card is harder to abuse when you intend to use it fairly.

When I attempted to slot in Griselbrand into my various non-combo decks as a test, the dilemma I faced was having to draw in chunks of 7. Basically, unless I had a Reliquary Tower in play, or a combo to dig for, I only wanted to use Griselbrand to fill my hand when my hand was basically empty or dead. The 14-21 point life swing I could take to dig reasonably deep was a significant consideration to make IMO and waiting around to use up all the gas I'd drawn meant Griselbrand had to stick around, which is just so unlikely.

In terms of the dilemma of getting him out early via recursion, I again don't see it as a problem in non-combo decks. If I cheat Griselbrand out turn 4-5, sure I get to draw a full hand, but I should be considered a high priority target from then onward. A Promise of Power turn 4-5 is basically going to draw me almost as much usable gas with a fraction of the threat directed at me thereafter.

TLDR; As I said in the beginning, this is the first card in a while that has raised my eyebrows, but with a bit of thought, I only really consider him bad in dedicated combo decks.

_________________
Xenagos, God of Revels
Kalemne, Disciple of Iroas


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Griselbrand.
AgePosted: 2012-Apr-13 4:38 pm 
User avatar

Joined: 2007-Sep-10 2:51 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Rittman, OH USA
Who here has gotten to test this thing with their playgroups?
It feels REALLY reminiscent of the Emrakul days around here.

You could have a strategy planned out to win, but Reanimate/Bribery/Cheat In Griselbrand is almost always superior.

"I have this path to victory, but it'll take a few turns and I have to worry what Steve is gonna do with Arcum. Oh wait, I'll just draw 28-35 cards and end the game."

He doesn't take up too much deck space, really...
If you are running a bunch of tutors already, it is easy. (Vamp, Demonic, Personal, Mystical, Enlightened... Seal/Grim if you got em)
Just add Reanimate, Animate Dead, Exhume, Entomb, and Griselbrand
Now, whenever you have Entomb and a tutor, or a reanimation spell and a tutor, get the other piece.
Watch how easy it is to crumble a game into dust with a turn 3 Griselbrand. ESPECIALLY if your deck is combo to begin with.

"People will play with it in a fair manner" is a terrible precedent. Protean Hulk is on the banlist.
Kokusho and Emrakul are on there too, because the game revolves around them.
The difference with Griselbrand is that it revolves around him for like one turn and then the game is done.

I dunno, the thing is actually BETTER than Yawg Bargain in a lot of ways. The cheating into play is so much simpler if the card is a creature.
Sure, someone will play 8 swamps and cast him on turn 8 and will draw 7 cards with it when it is fair... but how likely is it that anyone you play with is that person?

_________________
My card alter blog: The Phyrexian Renaissance


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 385 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 26  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 24 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: