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 Post subject: Doran, Siege Warfare
AgePosted: 2012-Feb-18 1:42 am 
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Joined: 2011-May-04 9:09 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Saskatchewan
So, this deck was originally Gaddock Teeg, became Tolsimir Wolfblood due to people despising Teeg as my general and I got sick of casting them, and then I really didn't like how the deck was looking and saw Doran in the From the Vault set and thought, hey, this guy is pretty cool. The other reason I like Doran is because he does a global effect, for good or bad, which I find makes him fun and interestion. Other legends in here might end up being more effective at time, but I just like the feel of Doran.

So, to the deck. There are some cards I would like to replace but I will get to those after the decklist. The thing I don't like about the deck is it is, in many ways, filled with a sizable number of staples and general good-stuff. The reason for the other GWB generals in there as one, they are still quite good, and two, if lets me change the deck up a bit if I really want to, but Doran is the one I almost always use. The things I do like about it, is the deck is durable. It just keeps coming back for more punishment and seems to hold out and keep on the aggressive quite a bit. It does look a little lighter on the land, but I have almost never run into mana issues. If anyone but me ran Ruination in my groups, I would be in some serious shit. So, on to the deck.

Artifacts
Behemoth Sledge
Darksteel Ingot
Lightning Greaves
Sensei's Divining Top
Skullclamp
Sol Ring

Creatures
Acidic Slime
Brawn
Chorus of the Conclave
Deadwood Treefolk
Doran, the Siege Tower (general)
Fleetfoot Panther
Ghave, Guru of Spores
Grand Abolisher
Gurzigost
Indomitable Ancients
Karador, Ghost Chieftan
Knight of the Reliquary
Krosan Tusker
Loxodon Hierarch
Mortivore
Nacatl War Pride (man does this guy draw some serious hate)
Phantom Nishoba
Primeval Titan
Qasali Pridemage
Ranger en-Vec
Requiem Angel
Selesnya Guildmage
Skinshifter
Stingerfling Spider (I've fallen in love with this guy)
Sun Titan
Suture Priest (another one that draws a lot of hate)
Teneb, the Harvester
Thicket Elemental
Tolsimir Wolfblood
Vampire Nighthawk
Verdant Force
Vulturous Zombie

Enchantments
Abundance
Animate Dead
Attrition
Aura Shards (Due to token production, I run out of targets some fierce)
Aura of Silence
Awakening Zone
Fecundity
Mirari's Wake
Necrogenesis
Prison Term
Privilidged Position
Sacred Mesa
Sylvan Library

Planeswalkers
Elspeth, Knight-Errant
Garruk Relentless

Instants
Beast Within
Harrow
Krosan Grip
Mercy Killing (I have found sooo many uses for this card)
Mortify
Oblation
Return to Dust
Swords to Plowshares
White Sun's Zenith

Sorceries
Cultivate
Day of Judgement
Dread Return
Explosive Vegetation
Rout

Lands
Command Tower
Gavoni Township
Golgari Rot Farm
Grim Backwoods
Orzhov Basilica
Razorverge Thicket
Riftstone Portal
Rupture Spire
Sejiri Steppe
Selesnya Sanctuary
Sunpetal Grove
Temple of the False God
Vitu-Ghazi, the City Tree
Vivid Grove
Vivid Marsh
Vivid Meadow
Woodland Cemetary
Forest x6
Plains x5
Swamp x4


So, things I would like to see changed when/if I get the cards:
Loxodon Hierarch replaced with a Dauntless Escort because seriously, it's pretty obvious.
Knight of the Reliquary hasn't seen much proper use. With the lower amount of Forest/Plains and quite a bit of dual/multi coloured lands, she just doesn't see a lot of effectiveness. The times I do use her is if I have a Harrow in hand want my Riftstone Portal to be the engine. Might cut her, but I am not sure if I should and with what. Suggestions?
There is no Attrition in the deck, and I own one, but I feel that would be a little too much dirt on my hands. Having an answer to pretty much everything out there sometimes takes away the challenge, but I want this to deck to be effective as it can be, without being broken. Decisions, decisions.
An Isolated Chapel is on the list, but not that heavily needed as of now.
Doubling Season seems like an obvious card to go in here, but I do not own one and that would change much of the direction of the deck, I feel. It's younger cousin could also fit well.
Why no non-land tutors? Tutors are overdone and take away some of the feel for the game, I feel. I seem to draw into answers a lot and just about everything I draw ends up viable very quickly.

Thoughts and comments are greatly appreciated as I am still seeking to tune this deck in any way that I can. Also, a number of cards ended up in there because I own them and always wanted to use them, but they usually work the magic needed so it's rarely a worry.


Last edited by Ukkmaster on 2012-Feb-20 3:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Doran, Siege Warfare
AgePosted: 2012-Feb-18 2:42 am 

Joined: 2012-Feb-16 3:43 am
Age: Drake
Since you were kind enough to help me out with ideas for mine (and I wanted to steal more of your ideas) I figured I'd comment.

I'd personally add Dauntless Escort to go alongside the Luxodon if Tokens are really a goal. I'm not sure that is the case but I do see a White Sun's Zenith and if that is the case Decree of Justice?

Knight is great if you have the non-basic utilities or duals/shocks to help facilitate her. If you're looking to keep her a Vault of the Archangel or Volrath's Stronghold would definately make her worth the while. Otherwise Crop Rotation or Sylvan Scrying could fit the role of finding the not-Sejiri Steppe utility you have now.

Why Fleetfoot Panther/Ranger en-Vec?

If Necrogenesis is there for graveyard hate might Scavenging Ooze & Night Soil not be better?

Is Garruk there just to pump tokens or is there a graveyard mechanic I'm missing?

PS
So jealous of your Nishoba.

_________________
Decklists
Ghave - Grocery Bag
Edric - "Helpdeck"
Hazezon Tamar - Dune Flavor Project

I'm just glad I'm not in a group that has to worry about a Sky Hussar combo.


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 Post subject: Re: Doran, Siege Warfare
AgePosted: 2012-Feb-18 11:07 am 
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Joined: 2011-May-04 9:09 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Saskatchewan
InOzWeTrust wrote:
So jealous of your Nishoba.

Got that beauty in a random pack back in the day. How do you not use it?

InOzWeTrust wrote:
I'd personally add Dauntless Escort to go alongside the Luxodon if Tokens are really a goal. I'm not sure that is the case but I do see a White Sun's Zenith and if that is the case Decree of Justice?

I am on the lookout for another one, but as this deck has little to no lifegain, I find the smaller tokens are harder to keep alive from a Massacre Wurm that is usually inevitable, even with some of my boosting cards.

InOzWeTrust wrote:
Knight is great if you have the non-basic utilities or duals/shocks to help facilitate her. If you're looking to keep her a Vault of the Archangel or Volrath's Stronghold would definately make her worth the while. Otherwise Crop Rotation or Sylvan Scrying could fit the role of finding the not-Sejiri Steppe utility you have now.

The Vault I just got a copy of, but my BW got priority over it as it has more lifegain shennanigans. I would really like one for the deck, though. I haven't been able to find a Stronghold anywhere, but if I do...Maybe I will just keep her in there as she does have some usefulness.

InOzWeTrust wrote:
Why Fleetfoot Panther/Ranger en-Vec?

People always ask that at first. The panther I have found a lot of use it. Much of the time, it prevents my creatures from being stolen/exiled while giving me a backup plan. It also lets me bring back the Nishoba when counters are getting small, or if I've gotten sick of paying the general tax for the next time. The ranger is kind of a leftover from the GW days and has some nostalgia value. Plus that bugger frustrates the hell out of people as a blocker. With Tolsimir Wolfblood and some of my other pumping cards, he becomes a real PITA quickly. He regenerates for cheap, is quick to get out, has first strike; just all kinds of nice.

InOzWeTrust wrote:
If Necrogenesis is there for graveyard hate might Scavenging Ooze & Night Soil not be better?

I used Night Soil for a while, but found that when an odd number of creatures was in a GY, I ran into problems. When a person uses Buried Alive, I could only get 2 of the 3 targets. This let me be a little more discerning. The ooze I only have one copy of and something else is using it, plus the G mana requirement, when I did try it, got a little annoying. Plus, creatures die easier than enchantments.

InOzWeTrust wrote:
Garruk there just to pump tokens or is there a graveyard mechanic I'm missing?

He part of the testing grounds and haven't gotten much of a chance to use him. Token producers have done me well in the past, he can take out small nuisances, and when he flips, Deathtouch 1/1's are just nice. The tutor, while going against some of my philosophies, can be helpful if I am aiming to finish someone off, and the last is a finisher as often my baddies have gotten wrathed for the umpteenth time. Plus, people don't percieve him as a huge threat so he isn't an auto-target like some other planeswalkers (looking at you, Elspeth).


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 Post subject: Re: Doran, Siege Warfare
AgePosted: 2012-Feb-18 4:26 pm 

Joined: 2012-Feb-16 3:43 am
Age: Drake
Ukkmaster wrote:
InOzWeTrust wrote:
So jealous of your Nishoba.

Got that beauty in a random pack back in the day. How do you not use it?


I don't own one :(

Ukkmaster wrote:
InOzWeTrust wrote:
I'd personally add Dauntless Escort to go alongside the Luxodon if Tokens are really a goal. I'm not sure that is the case but I do see a White Sun's Zenith and if that is the case Decree of Justice?

I am on the lookout for another one, but as this deck has little to no lifegain, I find the smaller tokens are harder to keep alive from a Massacre Wurm that is usually inevitable, even with some of my boosting cards.


I don't see Massacre Wurm around much but I don't suspect that Decree makes smaller tokens than White Sun when cast and both the soldiers and the cats die to the Wurm regardless of Dauntless Escort vs Luxodon Hierarch. I spose it depends on how many old wraths are running around as Luxodon laughs at Day of Judgement.

Ukkmaster wrote:
InOzWeTrust wrote:
Why Fleetfoot Panther/Ranger en-Vec?

People always ask that at first. The panther I have found a lot of use it. Much of the time, it prevents my creatures from being stolen/exiled while giving me a backup plan. It also lets me bring back the Nishoba when counters are getting small, or if I've gotten sick of paying the general tax for the next time. The ranger is kind of a leftover from the GW days and has some nostalgia value. Plus that bugger frustrates the hell out of people as a blocker. With Tolsimir Wolfblood and some of my other pumping cards, he becomes a real PITA quickly. He regenerates for cheap, is quick to get out, has first strike; just all kinds of nice.


Just checking. I like the panther for a saving grace more than Stonecloaker. I like WG regen but I would have thought Charging Troll is better than the ranger for the role he fills now.

Ukkmaster wrote:
InOzWeTrust wrote:
Garruk there just to pump tokens or is there a graveyard mechanic I'm missing?

He part of the testing grounds and haven't gotten much of a chance to use him. Token producers have done me well in the past, he can take out small nuisances, and when he flips, Deathtouch 1/1's are just nice. The tutor, while going against some of my philosophies, can be helpful if I am aiming to finish someone off, and the last is a finisher as often my baddies have gotten wrathed for the umpteenth time. Plus, people don't percieve him as a huge threat so he isn't an auto-target like some other planeswalkers (looking at you, Elspeth).


I looked at him for graveyard token Ghave shenanigans because well it looks like a perfect fit and even then couldn't fully utilize him so didn't make the cut. Sadly Karn is on his way out for the same reason. Nothing wrong with using it just for wolves if that's the goal but they too die to Massacre Wurm.

_________________
Decklists
Ghave - Grocery Bag
Edric - "Helpdeck"
Hazezon Tamar - Dune Flavor Project

I'm just glad I'm not in a group that has to worry about a Sky Hussar combo.


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 Post subject: Re: Doran, Siege Warfare
AgePosted: 2012-Feb-18 5:21 pm 
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Joined: 2011-May-04 9:09 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Saskatchewan
I find as long as I have some sort of pump effect on the board, the cat's will survive a Massacre Wurm, whereas otherwise I would need two at once, which is harder. Guess I have just seen that wurm wreck too many people, particularly a guy who is kind of obsessed with using Avenger of Zendikar. Also, if I had the escort I wouldn't even contemplate the replacement as I can also fetch him with a Sun Titan.

I also found the synergy of the panther with Tolsimir Wolfblood and that slight boost from Doran is quite nice. My only trouble with Charging Troll is I wouldn't be able to grab him with the Sun Titan. He is also one of those nostalgia cards from an age long gone.

I will see how Garruk works out, though. I put him in there because the colours fit (picked one up in a mass trade for the heck of it) and he had some abilities that I thought were neat. Big thing being, for a planeswalker, he seems to fly under the radar more than others.


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 Post subject: Re: Doran, Siege Warfare
AgePosted: 2012-Feb-18 6:12 pm 

Joined: 2012-Feb-16 3:43 am
Age: Drake
I took another look at your list when you'd mentioned multiple Lord effects and I didn't see them in the initial glance over on a second look I'm curious why no Wilt-Leaf Liege, Creakwood Liege, or Marshal's Anthem?

Why Souls of the Fautless? I see a 4/4 that drains them for it's power but it can't really hit them back. A Soul Link would do much of the same while being more active. Also an Armadillo Cloak would be more aggressive and synergism with Sun Titan in the same slot.

I've found a Vulturous Zombie to be lackluster without some hefty mill and/or indestructibility to keep it alive long enough to make a difference. Baneslayer Angel or any other fat 5 drop flier seems to be a better fit.

_________________
Decklists
Ghave - Grocery Bag
Edric - "Helpdeck"
Hazezon Tamar - Dune Flavor Project

I'm just glad I'm not in a group that has to worry about a Sky Hussar combo.


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 Post subject: Re: Doran, Siege Warfare
AgePosted: 2012-Feb-18 10:21 pm 
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Joined: 2011-May-04 9:09 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Saskatchewan
InOzWeTrust wrote:
I took another look at your list when you'd mentioned multiple Lord effects and I didn't see them in the initial glance over on a second look I'm curious why no Wilt-Leaf Liege, Creakwood Liege, or Marshal's Anthem?

Why Souls of the Fautless? I see a 4/4 that drains them for it's power but it can't really hit them back. A Soul Link would do much of the same while being more active. Also an Armadillo Cloak would be more aggressive and synergism with Sun Titan in the same slot.

I've found a Vulturous Zombie to be lackluster without some hefty mill and/or indestructibility to keep it alive long enough to make a difference. Baneslayer Angel or any other fat 5 drop flier seems to be a better fit.


I did try Marshal's Anthem for a while, but found it to be far too white mana intensive to use as much as I wanted to, especially in that sometimes in would locked me out of producing tokens and other things. I can't remember what I cut it for, though. It might have been Dread Return...

As for the two Liege's mentioned, I did look at them but haven't been able to gain any access to them over here. The thing I didn't like about the Wilt-Leaf is all he does is boost as his ability is kind of rare. The Creakwood does look nice though. I don't run a great deal of black creatures in my deck, but it still could be an okay boost. I've also tried a heavy lord theme and I found it fell apart too easily. So far between Mirari's Wake, Tolsimir Wolfblood and Gavony Township, it's been pretty solid. I will keep an eye out for a Creakwood, though.

Souls of the Faultless? You know, I'm not really sure. It has seriously detracted people from attacking me, but not very often. I think the thought there was it was a backup plan at one point that doesn't seem to exist in the deck anymore. I should probably figure out what to replace that with. The A. Cloak I am working on getting from someone else right now and would probably be a decent fit. I just found that cards like it drew too much attention to a single creature, getting it taken out or controlled, as my Nishoba is already a popular target that does what the cloak adds.

Vulturous Zombie has actually worked out pretty well for me, surprisingly. It has produced amazing results, most of the time, but yes, a Baneslayer would probably be more effective in the long run. The main reason I like it is due to it being a black creature, it avoids a significant amount of targetted removal that runs in my playgroups (plus I own one of these and not the other). Any solid suggestions for a black/multi-coloured flier in the 5 mana range?


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 Post subject: Re: Doran, Siege Warfare
AgePosted: 2012-Feb-19 9:00 am 

Joined: 2012-Feb-16 3:43 am
Age: Drake
Wilt-Leaf just seemed like an auto include along side WG creatures Tolsimir already buffs. 4/4 for 4 that double lords the golds. I've used him in WRG tokens to sickening effect off Hazezon Tamar and you are right I've never once used his ability in any format still doesn't undervalue his presence.

Might I suggest Divinity of Pride for a Black flier. I'm actually quite surprised you've found color to matter for removal. In that same 5 drop part black counter motif Spiritmonger might be a good fit as well with your regenerating Wrath effects.

_________________
Decklists
Ghave - Grocery Bag
Edric - "Helpdeck"
Hazezon Tamar - Dune Flavor Project

I'm just glad I'm not in a group that has to worry about a Sky Hussar combo.


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 Post subject: Re: Doran, Siege Warfare
AgePosted: 2012-Feb-19 12:23 pm 
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Joined: 2011-May-04 9:09 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Saskatchewan
The most common creature destruction, that isn't en-masse, among my groups says "target nonblack creature", from Attrition to Nekrataal-like effects. Divinity looks quite nice and I have been glancing at it here and there. I would just need to find one around here.

I should note, that my Vulturous Zombie is usually played around the time I cast Aura Shards, as people in my group are often using a significant amount of enchantments and artifacts. Within the span of a turn, it is usually around a 10/10+. That, and a certain person is often obsessessed with using his GY, so things tend to fly into it at a constant rate.


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 Post subject: Re: Doran, Siege Warfare
AgePosted: 2012-Feb-20 3:27 pm 
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Joined: 2011-May-04 9:09 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Saskatchewan
So I broke down and took out Souls of the Faultless and placed Attrition in there, keeping the mana curve about the same, but now with something to expend extra mana on while giving me some more control. If it turns out as well as planned, I will feel kind of like a douche while increasing the effectiveness of the deck. Lets see if it's a fair trade-off; at least I don't have any Gravepact-like effects in the deck that is oh-so-typical.


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