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 Post subject: Re: Forum Game: I Need A Hero!
AgePosted: 2019-Apr-11 9:51 pm 

Joined: 2013-Jun-23 10:18 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Sid the Chicken wrote:
Next case... Mesmerizing Benthid


I'm going to go with Jalira or anything that would adore Proteus Staff (et al). Three bodies for your five mana/polymorphing is fine value, and you can Staff one of the tokens without losing the Benthid's hexproof.

Alternatively, it could be an underrated pick in Blink decks, where you can repeatedly sticky tap attackers and then blink the Benthid to generate more and keep the hexproof?

Tell me about Kaya, Orzhov Usurper.

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 Post subject: Re: Forum Game: I Need A Hero!
AgePosted: 2019-Apr-12 3:34 am 
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Age: Elder Dragon
Swmystery wrote:
Tell me about Kaya, Orzhov Usurper.


I have her in my Teysa, Orzhov Scion deck, Kaya probably should be in my Aminatou, the Fateshifter deck though as it is more controlly. I have been thinking of what deck wants Kaya specifically... and I am just not sure. Her +1 would really help keep other people's graveyards in check so I think any deck that has W/B would want her just to help with people's 2nd hand. Her -1 might hit some annoying utility creature or token, but that is very dependant on the other players decks. Her final could help to keep you in the game I guess? It would be a very slow win con with multiple opponents.

I guess you could throw her into Atraxa, Praetors' Voice or something with lots of proliferate? Yeah, she just seems like a good stuff card that doesn't really do much outside of 1v1.

If someone else has a better idea please speak up!

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The usual answer is "the social contract", but I guess that is not what you are looking for. Try house rules.


With perfect mana, reasonable removal, disruption, and card advantage, we're back to pitchforks and torches. And it's about to get worse for those who do not enjoy the game as Richard Garfield intended, playing as few win conditions as possible and prompting concession after all hopes (and spells) are lost. - Shaheen Soorani


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 Post subject: Re: Forum Game: I Need A Hero!
AgePosted: 2019-Apr-12 1:20 pm 
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Age: Elder Dragon
Reminder: After posting a response, suggest a replacement card

As for Kaya, she kinda doesn’t work with the model of the game because a lot of her power is rather dependent on what your opponents do. In many games she’ll do literally nothing while in others she’ll be the entire reason you win, and both are based on what cards/strategies you fight rather than how she synergizes with your deck. The only part of her kit that has any sort of “build around”-ness to it is her ult, and for that reason I’m going to say the commander she loves to be with the most is Ayli, for being such a prolific exiler, although original Teysa is a close runner-up.

Next card: Generous Patron

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 Post subject: Re: Forum Game: I Need A Hero!
AgePosted: 2019-Apr-13 10:20 am 
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Joined: 2009-Aug-20 7:49 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Hampshire
Uktabi_Kong wrote:
Next card: Generous Patron

The important thing here is that it doesn't care what kind of counters you are placing. One route would be to go infect, probably with Atraxa at the helm. Then any time you deal damage to a creature, you're drawing a card, and you can draw a bunch more cards on upkeep with the proliferate trigger. Vorel or Hapatra, also seem like they would want this card, but I think Atraxa is the most powerful home for it.

Next... how about Captive Audience?

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 Post subject: Re: Forum Game: I Need A Hero!
AgePosted: 2019-Apr-24 4:48 am 
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Joined: 2011-Jan-16 5:36 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Toronto, ON
Sid the Chicken wrote:
Next... how about Captive Audience?

To be honest, I'm not fond of this card. It will either be answered at instant speed, or eliminate a player in the most ponderous and unfun way possible. There are few cards that result in an interesting combination, in addition (setting your life total to 4 makes for... a hasty Bloodghast?).

That said, if the above sounds like your jam, there's probably some horrible Mardu deck that wouldn't mind playing this along with Starfield of Nyx and Obzedat's Aid along with red looting effects. Maybe, mercifully, we could also play Repay in Kind once our opponent chose to set their life total to 4.

Let's say Oros, the Avenger so you can torpedo other player's zombie tokens. Dragons are cruel, right?

Where would you play Infinite Hourglass?

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 Post subject: Re: Forum Game: I Need A Hero!
AgePosted: 2019-Apr-27 2:42 am 
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Joined: 2008-Mar-24 12:14 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Oakland, CA
Sinis wrote:
Where would you play Infinite Hourglass?

If you're just using it to buff your own tokens this is pretty bad; I think any color combination has better options. Maybe there's a Hope of Ghirapur token deck that wants any Anthem effect it can find, or a Jalira, Master Polymorphist with the same goal and also running Paradox Haze.

What is more interesting and unique about this card is its ability to buff your opponents' creatures as well. Group hug is a known archetype, and this could fit into such a deck. On the other hand, I've been toying with a fatten-before-the-slaughter deck for a while, and that's where this effect is at its best. There are a number of cards which benefit you more when your opponents have stronger creatures:
Death Watch / Dead Man's Chest / Fruit of the First Tree / Grim Feast
Laccolith Rig (if you can block the enchanted creature)
Tribute to Hunger / Consuming Vapors / Consume / Twisted Justice
Ravenous Slime / Kresh the Bloodbraided
Delirium / Backlash / Ana Battlemage / Shriveling Rot
Deadshot / Rival's Duel / Blood Feud / Alpha Brawl
any theft effects, most notably Grab the Reins and Traitorous Instinct
Exile / Entrapment Maneuver / Chastise / Vanish into Memory / Selfless Squire / Blazing Hope
Grisly Spectacle (if mill is useful to you)
Agonizing Demise / Phthisis
Noxious Gearhulk / Kalitas, Bloodchief of Ghet / Garruk, Apex Predator
Fell the Mighty / Citywide Bust / Slaughter the Strong / Retribution of the Meek / Aligned Hedron Network / Elspeth, Sun's Champion / Dusk
Mob Rule
Meekstone / Marble Titan / Crackdown
Topple / Abzan Charm

There are also a few good cards which can be used to efficiently buff your opponents' creatures:
Berserk
Sheltering Ancient
Generous Patron
Orzhov Advokist (your opponents get the option)
Reyhan, Last of the Abzan
Marath, Will of the Wild
Regna's Sanction
Ghave, Guru of Spores
Mark of Mutiny / Press into Service
Verdant Confluence (pretty costly for buffing opponents' creatures, but an otherwise efficient card that can be used that way)
anything with proliferate, if your opponents' creatures already have some +1/+1 counters

And several less-efficient cards for the task (which unfortunately include Infinite Hourglass); I'll just list a few notable ones here:

So, a quick glance over this list shows we don't get much out of having access to blue. Kresh the Bloodbraided gets the most obvious value out of Infinite Hourglass. I think the most efficient choice for a Commander using Infinite Hourglass and this theme would be Reyhan, Last of the Abzan + something, either Tana, the Bloodsower/Bruse Tarl, Boorish Herder to take advantage of the buffs provided to my own team, or Akiri, Line-Slinger to make use of the artifact status of Hourglass + Thran Weaponry + Ashnod's Transmogrant . . . but that's not where I chose to go with it. I really like Daghatar the Adamant for its political potential, being able to buff opponents' creatures when it suits me and then return their counters to me when my opponents decide to use my gifts against me. Here is my list (including Infinite Hourglass, and ouch, Thran Weaponry).

As a side note, Harold McNeil is one of my favorite artists, from the days when Magic illustrators were still allowed to have distinctive styles such that you could see a piece of their art and immediately recognize who had created it. If I were ever to build a 'favorite art' deck, I imagine Infinite Hourglass would have a shot at inclusion (although it's not my favorite McNeil piece, by far).

I'm hopeful someone can find me the perfect place where Pit Spawn isn't just an overpriced fatty . . .


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 Post subject: Re: Forum Game: I Need A Hero!
AgePosted: 2019-Apr-28 2:56 am 
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Joined: 2009-Aug-20 7:49 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Hampshire
intreped wrote:
I'm hopeful someone can find me the perfect place where Pit Spawn isn't just an overpriced fatty . . .

He's an interesting one... basically a Sword of Kaldra with legs. If Kaya, Orzhov Usurper was a general, he'd be a shoe-in. I'd say an equipment deck that includes black and white would be ideal... giving him an equipment like Thornbite Staff or Viridian Longbow would make him a powerful removal engine that also blocks very effectively. First strike + that ability means this thing can take on some of the most powerful threats out there, like Blightsteel Colossus or Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre and come out on top, and giving him a ping ability makes him a nightmare. So maybe a partnership of Akiri and Silas Renn?

What of Teferi, Time Raveler?

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 Post subject: Re: Forum Game: I Need A Hero!
AgePosted: 2019-May-03 4:20 am 

Joined: 2017-Oct-19 12:02 am
Age: Drake
Sid the Chicken wrote:
intreped wrote:
I'm hopeful someone can find me the perfect place where Pit Spawn isn't just an overpriced fatty . . .

He's an interesting one... basically a Sword of Kaldra with legs. If Kaya, Orzhov Usurper was a general, he'd be a shoe-in. I'd say an equipment deck that includes black and white would be ideal... giving him an equipment like Thornbite Staff or Viridian Longbow would make him a powerful removal engine that also blocks very effectively. First strike + that ability means this thing can take on some of the most powerful threats out there, like Blightsteel Colossus or Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre and come out on top, and giving him a ping ability makes him a nightmare. So maybe a partnership of Akiri and Silas Renn?

What of Teferi, Time Raveler?


I think he is a perfect fit for Grand Arbiter Augustin IV but some other stax decks would love him also.

What about Command the dreadhorde

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 Post subject: Re: Forum Game: I Need A Hero!
AgePosted: 2019-May-03 4:48 am 
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Joined: 2007-Mar-28 12:38 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Otaria
Command the Dreadhorde is plenty powerful effect with a drawback- -nothing new for the flashy black spells in the game. What is unique about this one, is that it deals damage, instead of the more typical life loss. Slot it in a deck with a bit of prevention effects- -The Wanderer, Glacial Chasm, Personal Sanctuary, Selfless Squire, even Circle of Protection: Black and it has no drawback at all.

I think I would add red and play Tariel, Reckoner of Souls. Earthquake-type effects fill the graveyards of opponents to fuel Command, and the white enchantments keep the damage off your shoulders. And Tajic, Legion's Edge is plenty playable.

Give me a home for Pestilent Spirit. Bonus points for a non-red answer.

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 Post subject: Re: Forum Game: I Need A Hero!
AgePosted: 2019-May-05 11:21 am 
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Joined: 2011-Jan-16 5:36 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Toronto, ON
Jeyal wrote:
Give me a home for Pestilent Spirit. Bonus points for a non-red answer.

I answered this one on page 24, about halfway down; replicated below for convenience.

I'm going to go off-the-wall, and say this needs to live in Not-green. WUBR. Here's my reasoning: cards like Soulfire Grand Master and various Jeskai cards reward instant/sorcery/noncreature plays. There just isn't enough support in B/R to justify heavy use of of damaging instants or sorceries; yeah, you can play cards like Satyr Firedancer, and similar stuff, but I don't think the support is really there. You're going to need to play a lot more similar stuff to justify putting Pestilent Spirit in. This deck is going to need Firesong and Sunspeaker, Soulfire Grand Master, Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest, dorks with prowess, maybe cards like Young Pyromancer/Monastery Mentor/Docent of Perfection, etc.

My money is on Kraum, Ludevic's Opus partnered with Tymna, the Weaver. If you're playing heavy burn, you're gonna need to draw. That's pretty much how I see it.


I'd be totally down to hear another take on it, though.

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 Post subject: Re: Forum Game: I Need A Hero!
AgePosted: 2019-May-05 12:17 pm 
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Age: Elder Dragon
Disclaimer: this one is definitely not a hidden gem or a hard-to-build-around, but this is the thread for finding cards homes, and so:

I have exactly 1 copy of Teferi's Protection (unsurprisingly, from the pre-con when I bought it). I have 16 white decks. Given I don't proxy cards and I don't swap cards from deck to deck, which of the following decks do you folks think deserves the card? The issue, of course, is that T.Prot goes in literally any white deck. My decks are:

Mono-W: Kitsune Mystic Enchantments. Not a great fit, no synergy

W-U: Isperia the Inscrutable Fliers: U/W Skies Control, basically. But it's more of a tap-out control deck than an instant speed one.
W-B: Ghost Council of Orzhova Blinky-Tokens: Thematically it fits, although I (obv) don't get ETB triggers when stuff phases in. This is already one of my stronger decks, and I can see T.Prot slotting in here nicely. Honestly this is my pick currently.
W-R: Anax and Cymede Heroic Soldier Tribal: Would be as good in here as in any other deck that wants to protect it's creatures.
W-G: Tolsmir Wolfblood tokens: As for A&C, with the added benefit that I don't actually lose my tokens to phasing.

WUB: Aminatou Blinks: Again thematically on-point, but like Isperia this is a tap-out deck that doesn't often leave mana up.
WBR: Edgar Markov Vampires: Just a creature deck. Moving on.
WRG: Mayael the Anima big stompy: Protecting big creatures is cool, at least I won't have to recast them?

WUR: Zedruu of the giving you stuff: Has a bunch of stuff I'd like to protect and also lets me keep stuff I've stolen. It's a good fit in here.
WUG: Rafiq of the Many Voltron: Possibly my best deck (next to Animar). Doesn't need the help. Next. (Yes, it would obviously be good in here, but it's already above the power level of most of the decks in my playgroup, and I don't want to increase that gap)
WBG: Doran of the Big Butts: Again, it protects the creatures. Also turns Doran off for the turn he's phased out, which may be worth something?

Non-U: Tana and Ravos Tokens/Arisotcrats: I think this deck wants to be interacting in the opponents turns too much to be using this.
Non-B: Kynaios and Tiro Group Hug (soon to be Landfall): No better or worse than any other deck
Non-R: Ishai and Reyhan +1/+1 counters: Ditto
Non-G: Akiri and Silas Equipments: Would be good to avoid Shatterstorm/Vandalblast?

5 colour: Ur-Dragon dragons: Similar to Mayael, good for keeping the big lugs around, but otherwise it's just the same

I know the descriptions are kind of short, but hopefully it gives you an idea of what's going on. So, which deck would you put Teferi's Protection in? Why?

Thanks folks :)

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 Post subject: Re: Forum Game: I Need A Hero!
AgePosted: 2019-May-06 4:22 am 
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I really like Teferi's Protection in token decks- -your W/G Tolsimir one seems fitting. You can't play a card like Ghostway, Eerie Interlude, or even Faith's Reward to get a similar effect for token creatures. White-Green as a whole is kind of lax on interactions outside of the combat step (besides symmetric destruction and breaking artifacts/enchantments, I guess).

White-Black works just as well, but I imagine the tokens that it produces are significantly more expendable? Saving Ghost Dad only takes on token, anyway.


I'll leave this one open for a second opinion.

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 Post subject: Re: Forum Game: I Need A Hero!
AgePosted: 2019-May-06 1:24 pm 
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Joined: 2012-Feb-07 4:15 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
So, before I even read your list, some initial thoughts I've been having about Teferi's Protection since I'm in the exact same boat as you (have 1 copy, trying to find a home for it in the 32 deck challenge).

1. It's really, really powerful, up there in the same category as Cyclonic Rift or Demonic Tutor in terms of making pretty much any deck that can run it objectively stronger. Cards like that I tend to reserve for only two types of decks: decks that lean toward the competitive end of the spectrum and literally just want the best possible additions, or decks that can get a particular use out of it aside from just it being a staple. Regarding the more competitive deck, disregard pretty much everything else I say.

2. While its power comes from its ability to be the ultimate "get out of jail free" card, there are two specific kind of decks that can most likely make better use of it than others. The first is a deck that tends to play a lot at instant speed, for obvious reasons. The second is a deck that prefers to go wide, and specifically go wide in terms of making tokens, since self-bounce and exile effects can save other stuff.

3. Since you have a single copy, I'm going to say green decks are probably a non-starter. If you ever feel you need its effect, green has dozens of discount versions in the various Heroic Intervention or Fog effects. The sole exception to this rule is if the deck happens to run both Riftsweeper and a way to recur him.

4. One hidden advantage of it is that it can turn off cards that you don't want to be active during opponents' turns. The most obvious example of this I can think of is group hug and other universal effects, although there might be some political benefits to doing something like temporarily stifling a Pacifism.

All of that being said, Zedruu jumps out at being the best recipient, as she has an element of everything I mentioned. She's not green, she has an element of group hug to her, she tends to get a rather large board state more often than not, it fits rather thematically as she tends to be a more defensive build, and she's likely to have 3 mana open quite a bit since that's the cost of her ability. The runners up are Akiri+Silas, Ghost Council, and Rafiq

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 Post subject: Re: Forum Game: I Need A Hero!
AgePosted: 2019-May-06 1:28 pm 
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Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Hampshire
Jeyal wrote:
Give me a home for Pestilent Spirit. Bonus points for a non-red answer.

Honestly, I don't think he's very good in any non-red deck. Looking at the other colors, white has a couple damage-dealing spells, like Arrow Volley Trap, and black has a few like Sorin's Thirst that deal actual damage. Green has anti-flyer spells such as Squall Line, and Sandstorm if you've got one. The basic problem here is that you can't reliably build-around the Pestilent Spirit, so he's a supporting piece, and to be relevant, he needs to be a supporting piece in a deck that plays a lot of damaging spells, and specifically spells that don't deal much damage at once, or distribute that damage in small increments, like Meteor Shower or Aurelia's Fury... basically all the kind of spells a Feather, deck wants, only Feather can't use this card. Sadly, I don't see this working out without red, so I think Sinis nailed this one. I'd say you at least want to be Grixis, and going full on Breya makes a lot of sense.

Viperion wrote:
I have exactly 1 copy of Teferi's Protection ... which of the following decks do you folks think deserves the card?

Whichever one you think is the weakest.

Since we seem to need a new card, who would want the services of Tomik, Distinguished Advokist?

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 Post subject: Re: Forum Game: I Need A Hero!
AgePosted: 2019-May-06 1:42 pm 
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Age: Elder Dragon
The easy answer is Noyan Daar, the slightly less easy answer is any of the hatebear generals like the Thalia twins or Gaddock Teeg. Past that I can't find anything really all that compelling, as "lands matter" isn't a strategy that's particularly popular in white. Maybe Hazeon Tamar?

The rule for the next card: no group hug decks. Upwelling

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