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 Post subject: Re: Forum Game: I Need A Hero!
AgePosted: 2018-Dec-16 8:11 am 
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Joined: 2011-Jan-16 5:36 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Toronto, ON
Ski Gloves wrote:
Speaking of the top of the deck, have we discussed Experimental Frenzy?

I could have sworn we have, but... no, we haven't.

I think it could easily live in any Boros or Gruul deck; Experimental Frenzy likes additional land plays, Boros wants any card advantage it can realistically have, it doesn't interfere with Primal Surge, etc. However, I think the deck that would like it the most would be Neheb, the Worthy.

Neheb, the Worthy isn't keen to actually physically draw cards, and this lets them continue to play the game while in no-hand land. It also likes symmetrical discard effects ("oh, my hand, whatever shall I do!"). Basically, it shores the deck's real punishing weakness.

Who likes Visions from Beyond?

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 Post subject: Re: Forum Game: I Need A Hero!
AgePosted: 2018-Dec-17 1:16 pm 
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Joined: 2009-Aug-20 7:49 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Hampshire
Sinis wrote:
Who likes Visions from Beyond?

You mean Visions OF Beyond, I assume. Phenax, is an obvious choice here, but it says "a graveyard" not "an opponent's graveyard", so I think The Mimeoplasm is a fine choice here too.

Who needs a Reason // Believe?

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 Post subject: Re: Forum Game: I Need A Hero!
AgePosted: 2018-Dec-17 11:15 pm 
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Joined: 2013-Jul-25 1:15 pm
Age: Dragon
Location: Durham, England
Sid the Chicken wrote:
Who needs a Reason // Believe?
A GUx ramp deck is likely the primary use-case, especially if you're playing in a tutorless or tutor-light meta. One of the issues that ramp decks often face is that they gather up an ocean of mana to show off their winning play, nervously smiling as they reach for the top of their deck. Or the ramp deck trips and falters from the gate as they try hold a whole bunch of overly expensive cards in hand. For a deck whose commander is itself a big play to sink mana into (like Zacama or Marath), this is less of an issue.

For a commander like Arixmethes, who isn't realistically able to win the game if you just acquire "enough" mana, this can be a real problem. Reason to Believe offers you a solution as both a play for the turn after Arixmethes comes down or a 1 mana cantrip that you can use to craft your draws on turn 1. Most Arixmethes builds are sea monster themed, so I can't imagine you'd be lacking for targets. Believe is especially good if your deck happens to be playing Brainstorm, Sylvan Library, Sensei's Divining Top, Scroll Rack and other staples for making your friends hate your slow play along with Eldrazi/Blightsteel Collossi to find and cheat into play on turn 3 despite your friends' requests that you not do that.

So... As far as big colourless beaters go, I'm surprised I haven't seen more of Kozilek, the Great Distortion. So what deck might want that in the 99?

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I had a long hiatus, removed some decks, but I still love lands.
Tatyova, Benthic Druid - Exploring Brawl
Arixmethes, Slumbering Isle - Work in Progress
Yasova Dragonclaw - Yasova Tinyclaw/Slightly-less-tinyclaw
Kruphix, God of Horizons - That Which Was Taken by Kruphix
Selvala, Explorer Returned - Blackless dredge
Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury - Monogreen Superfriends
Pharika, God of Affliction - Hemlock


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 Post subject: Re: Forum Game: I Need A Hero!
AgePosted: 2018-Dec-21 7:38 pm 
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Joined: 2011-Jan-16 5:36 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Toronto, ON
Ski Gloves wrote:
So... As far as big colourless beaters go, I'm surprised I haven't seen more of Kozilek, the Great Distortion. So what deck might want that in the 99?

I think the problem with finding a home for Kozilek, the Great Distortion is that it could reasonably fit... anywhere.

A 12/12 with Menace will generally put players out of the game, and the activated ability is welcome anywhere. The draw benefits some decks more than others, but to me, it's not really the strength of the card (it's the free conditional counterspells that admit a narrow response).

I like to think of Kozilek 2.0 as a 'fair threat'; it might be able to protect itself, it might not, it is a (relatively) slow clock. It seems like it should be common and popular at casual tables, and yet, I never seem to see it. My own copy, admittedly, is not in a deck right now.

The deck for which it's easiest to table Kozilek would probably be Kruphix, God of Horizons. Kruphix's mana degrades to colourless, which is exactly what Kozilek needs. Secondly, we're in green, and getting to 10 mana won't be too hard.

Now for a card I've been trying to squeeze into many decks, but never made the cut for more than a game or two: Worm Harvest (something other than Savra, Queen of the Golgari please!)

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 Post subject: Re: Forum Game: I Need A Hero!
AgePosted: 2018-Dec-21 11:55 pm 
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Joined: 2013-Jul-25 1:15 pm
Age: Dragon
Location: Durham, England
Sinis wrote:
Now for a card I've been trying to squeeze into many decks, but never made the cut for more than a game or two: Worm Harvest (something other than Savra, Queen of the Golgari please!)
It very much depends on how competitive your local meta is as to whether Worm Harvest is an effective tool or not. It's a fantastic engine card and any Life from the Loam deck can reliably keep getting the lands to fuel it. One problem, however, is that it can be surprisingly difficult to acquire lands in your hand without playing bad cards. Brewing Molten Vortex for frontier showed me how drastically fast that drop off is after Life from the Loam.

So what does Worm Harvest have to do to be really good? You have to be able to get at least 5 lands in the graveyard, you have to be able to quickly get lands into your hand, you have to be able to make use of lots of 1/1 tokens and you have to be okay with dumping 5 mana on doing very little.

So what commander has that full crossection? Well, I think the most fitting two are Ghave, Guru of Spores or Sidar Kondo of Jamuura with Ravos, Soultender. While I think Tana, the Bloodsower would be a better commander than Sidar Kondo and she would give access to Seismic Assault effects, she would further cripple this already comical mana base.

So about that manabase. White gives access to cards like Land Tax, Boreas Charger, Gift of Estates, Oreskos Explorer, Weathered Wayfarer, Endless Horizon and Emeria, the Sky Ruin to make use of this arse tonne of plains cards. I use this heavily weighted mana base in my Selvala, Explorer Returned deck and can still use my other colour via an expensive mana base of every fetch that can grab a plains and every Temple Garden/Godless Shrine variant I can get my hands on. But then you also want as many basics to tutor up as possible in your three colour deck, not exactly the easiest balancing act to craft. My experience may be a bit biased due to my use of Collective Voyage and a lack strip mines in the local meta to eliminate Emeria, but the strategy has been okay enough in 2 colour that it could possibly be expanded to 3 colour.

This core has enough redundancy that you won't just collapse to a badly timed Bojuka Bog. If you then build a dredgy tokeny shell around this core, I'd imagine the result is a decent deck plan that would be very threatening with Worm Harvest.

Next up: Big colourless swiss army knives definitely aren't my forte, but my newest deck plays this for theme reasons. What home would you give to Conqueror's Galleon//Conqueror's Foothold?

_________________
I had a long hiatus, removed some decks, but I still love lands.
Tatyova, Benthic Druid - Exploring Brawl
Arixmethes, Slumbering Isle - Work in Progress
Yasova Dragonclaw - Yasova Tinyclaw/Slightly-less-tinyclaw
Kruphix, God of Horizons - That Which Was Taken by Kruphix
Selvala, Explorer Returned - Blackless dredge
Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury - Monogreen Superfriends
Pharika, God of Affliction - Hemlock


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 Post subject: Re: Forum Game: I Need A Hero!
AgePosted: 2018-Dec-22 2:02 pm 
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Joined: 2009-Aug-20 7:49 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Hampshire
Ski Gloves wrote:
What home would you give to Conqueror's Galleon//Conqueror's Foothold?

That I run in my Depala deck... this is not thinking outside the box, to be sure, but this card really shines in decks that are colors that don't do recursion or card advantage well... i.e. pretty much any R/W, mono-R or mono-W deck, so long as that deck can reliably have 4 power worth of creatures to activate the crew ability.

Hows about Soul Foundry?

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"The President's job - and if someone sufficiently vain and stupid is picked he won't realize this - is not to wield power, but to draw attention away from it." -- Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide tot he Galaxy Radio Transcripts predicting the future.


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 Post subject: Re: Forum Game: I Need A Hero!
AgePosted: 2018-Dec-22 4:37 pm 
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Joined: 2011-Jan-16 5:36 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Toronto, ON
Sid the Chicken wrote:
Hows about Soul Foundry?

I really like it. I've had a lot of fun with its cousin, Prototype Portal.

I think there are lots of decks that could want this; there are slow-roll combo decks that use Biovisionary, but I feel like it would live in an edge-case tribal deck. My primary picks are Neheb the Worthy Minotaurs or Sachi, Daughter of Seshiro shamans.

The reason being, that anemic tribes sometimes really just want a head count while having a lot of potential to be fun. Alternatively, it might be fun to just churn out endless copies of Timberpack Wolf.

Help me find a home for Demon of Dark Schemes, please?

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 Post subject: Re: Forum Game: I Need A Hero!
AgePosted: 2018-Dec-28 5:20 pm 

Joined: 2012-Oct-24 8:05 pm
Age: Drake
Sinis wrote:
Worm Harvest (something other than Savra, Queen of the Golgari please!)
I would have thought The Gitrog Monster was the obvious choice.

Ski Gloves wrote:
Huh, maybe I should consider that for my Evra, Halcyon Witness deck. It's slow to get going, but the recursion ability is very powerful in the late game.


Now for the actual next card:
Sinis wrote:
Help me find a home for Demon of Dark Schemes, please?

The -2/-2 seems occasionally very good, sometimes irrelevant. The last two abilities seem good in the kind of mono-black deck that controls the board, makes a bunch of tokens and/or has lots of recursion, and sacrifices creatures for value. In my group there are some decks like that led by Yahenni, Undying Partisan (which has a bit of anti-synergy), Chainer, Dementia Master and Bontu the Glorified.


Does anyone want Ember Swallower?


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 Post subject: Re: Forum Game: I Need A Hero!
AgePosted: 2019-Jan-01 12:31 am 
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Joined: 2016-Nov-27 2:39 pm
Age: Dragon
NMS wrote:
Does anyone want Ember Swallower?


My friend who loves playing mass land destruction in her EDH decks would! She plays a mono-red control deck under Starke of Rath. I don't know a lot about its composition, but I know it features destruction and land destruction, spell redirection/copying, and delicious color pie breaks (of which Starke is one: "destroy target creature" on a red card!?). The redirection/copying effects are low mana so you don't care too much about losing a few lands yourself. If you're interested I'll dig up more details and see if there's a decklist online.

Alternately Lord Windgrace in his archetypal lands-in-graveyard theme would be absolutely fine having three lands drop into his graveyard. This combos well with Vulturous Zombie, Centaur Vinecrasher, (SPOILER) a recently-previewed Ravnica Allegiance card, and an active Bloodchief Ascension. In Windgrace's colors you can also get your lands back later with Splendid Reclamation or World Shaper; depending on your deck plan those cards might be great or anathema.

~~~

Goreclaw, Terror of Qal Sisma is beautiful and I think I have a plan for her already, but I'm interested to see what you'd do with her.

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Beloved precons: Atraxa, Praetors' Voice; Saskia the Unyielding; Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury.


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 Post subject: Re: Forum Game: I Need A Hero!
AgePosted: 2019-Jan-02 4:02 pm 
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Joined: 2009-Aug-20 7:49 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Hampshire
spacemonaut wrote:
Goreclaw, Terror of Qal Sisma is beautiful and I think I have a plan for her already, but I'm interested to see what you'd do with her.

I was going to say Stonebrow, but then I re-read it and realized they're kind of a non-bo. Goreclaw seems best when you go wide, and you need to be going wide with relatively large tokens/creatures. She also incentivizes creature spells by making them cheaper, but I think that's more relevant when she's used as a commander. So I'm gonna say something G/W like Trostani, which could generate a lot of tokens large enough to benefit from Goreclaw's shenannigans.

Who would use Shadow of the Grave?

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 Post subject: Re: Forum Game: I Need A Hero!
AgePosted: 2019-Jan-07 11:17 am 
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Joined: 2011-Jan-16 5:36 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Toronto, ON
Sid the Chicken wrote:
Who would use Shadow of the Grave?

This one is spicy.

It's pretty hard to use; mass discard through Wheels, Malfegor are nonbos because of the timing; you need to play this post-discard (or cycle), and that's going to mean most of the biggest discard opportunities are going to not work out (barring Isochron Scepter, which I think is too narrow to really try and use in for this).

Of the three shards including black, Esper or Grixis seem to have the most opportunity to do fun stuff with discard or cycle. For me, Dimir seems to live a the core of this, with Archfiend of Ifnir, Curator of Mysteries, Ancient Excavation and New Perspectives.

The easy answer is Zur the Enchanter. Zur can tutor Astral Slide, and Drake Haven (and even Faith of the Devoted depending on how deep you want to go into this). Cycle-Zur is (from the people I've met) a 'known' deck. It's explored, and I'm not sure there's anything more interesting to expore there.

However, I want to put Varina, Lich Queen as the commander where Shadow of the Grave lives. You can play this cycle and discard subgame in the deck, and Varina herself can allow for profitable discards (possibly big discards), where you don't lose Shadow as a matter of course. This entails that you will probably not play an extra-simple zombie tribal schtick that you would expect from Varina, but, that's not the worst thing in the world.

Let's see who can polish this turd: Chamber Sentry

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 Post subject: Re: Forum Game: I Need A Hero!
AgePosted: 2019-Jan-07 3:36 pm 
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Joined: 2009-Aug-20 7:49 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Hampshire
Sinis wrote:
Let's see who can polish this turd: Chamber Sentry

Having 5-color ID really limits the choices here. I'm going to say Najeela, because she pushes you toward warrior tribal, and warriors are generally on the small side, making the sentry's ability more potentially useful as a combat trick/blocker eliminator.

Does anyone have a special place for Yawgmoth's Vile Offering?

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 Post subject: Re: Forum Game: I Need A Hero!
AgePosted: 2019-Jan-08 5:35 am 
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Joined: 2011-Jan-16 5:36 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Toronto, ON
Sid the Chicken wrote:
Does anyone have a special place for Yawgmoth's Vile Offering?

Painfully generic value card is painfully generic.

This could live in almost anything where you can cast it (i.e. play a Legendary creature) and doesn't demand to be anywhere in particular. It probably does best under a Theros God, or super-friends deck, where you will typically have a planeswalker to enable the casting, and simultaneously get great value and protect your other walkers.

So, like, a generic Grixis Walkers deck? Favourable targets include Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker, Ugin, the Spirit Dragon, and Karn Liberated.

Let's say it lives in Vial Smasher the Fierce/Kraum, Ludevic's Opus. Partners make casting Yawgmoth's Vile Offering more reliable; Vial Smasher is aggressively costed, and general tax being tracked over two different creatures means you can probably have one on the table fairly reliably. Both partners provide a way to push players out of the game, and Kraum can draw you the cards you need to protect your walkers against a player tabling multiple threats.

Someone should tell me what they see in Mirror of Fate.

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 Post subject: Re: Forum Game: I Need A Hero!
AgePosted: 2019-Jan-08 9:28 am 
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Joined: 2012-Dec-03 3:16 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Sinis wrote:
Someone should tell me what they see in Mirror of Fate.


Tasigur, the Golden Fang is the only commander where I think you might be actively exiling your stuff. I guess Mairsil, the Pretender does that too, but you want to keep them exiled with him. I would break the Mirror as a Plan B, Plan A being people work with you and you get your stuff back from graveyard. You would have to play some stuff similar to a Doomsday build, i.e. stuff that can end the game very quickly.

Talk to me about Remand.

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Shabbaman wrote:
The usual answer is "the social contract", but I guess that is not what you are looking for. Try house rules.


With perfect mana, reasonable removal, disruption, and card advantage, we're back to pitchforks and torches. And it's about to get worse for those who do not enjoy the game as Richard Garfield intended, playing as few win conditions as possible and prompting concession after all hopes (and spells) are lost. - Shaheen Soorani


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 Post subject: Re: Forum Game: I Need A Hero!
AgePosted: 2019-Jan-08 9:28 am 
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Joined: 2012-Dec-03 3:16 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Sinis wrote:
Someone should tell me what they see in Mirror of Fate.


Tasigur, the Golden Fang is the only commander where I think you might be actively exiling your stuff. I guess Mairsil, the Pretender does that too, but you want to keep them exiled with him. I would break the Mirror as a Plan B, Plan A being people work with you and you get your stuff back from graveyard. You would have to play some stuff similar to a Doomsday build, i.e. stuff that can end the game very quickly.

Talk to me about Remand.

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Shabbaman wrote:
The usual answer is "the social contract", but I guess that is not what you are looking for. Try house rules.


With perfect mana, reasonable removal, disruption, and card advantage, we're back to pitchforks and torches. And it's about to get worse for those who do not enjoy the game as Richard Garfield intended, playing as few win conditions as possible and prompting concession after all hopes (and spells) are lost. - Shaheen Soorani


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