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 Post subject: Rath's edge and nantuko monastary
AgePosted: 2017-May-04 11:15 pm 
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Joined: 2010-Jan-25 4:50 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Anyone ever play with/against rath's edge? I am thinking of running it in my bant manland deck, but colorless land slots are at a premium. (if the deck was red i would throw in the red lands which shock, but this is the best there is in bant ping lands) Please let me know how it faired for you. The same for nantuko monastary, it just doesn't seem worth the colorless land slot for the potential effect. Thoughts and opinions about these cards?

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Kuro, Pitlord (Life gain)
Derevi (Manlands)
Marchesa (Modular)
Retired:
Krenko, Mob Boss (Goblins)
Zedruu the Christmas Goat (group hug)
Ramses Overdark (Assassin Deck)


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 Post subject: Re: Rath's edge and nantuko monastary
AgePosted: 2017-May-06 10:19 pm 
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Joined: 2017-Mar-11 6:43 am
Age: Dragon
You really should set up some linkage, when referencing one of your decklists xD. I think the convention is to use your signature as reference points.

With that out of the way, I like Nantuko Monastery over Grove of the Guardian. I feel like Rath's Edge is more suited to a General with access to R, where it can be joined by Furnace and Borborygmos Enraged for those Power Loams.

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 Post subject: Re: Rath's edge and nantuko monastary
AgePosted: 2017-May-07 12:42 am 
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Joined: 2010-Jan-25 4:50 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
True, here's an outdated updated list. I was mostly wondering in general if someone played those cards first hand in their deck and they really made use of the ability to ping a utility creature, planeswalker, or player. (Or 4/4 creature) Or if the abilities just didn't perfom 99 times out of 100 and hurt their deck more than it helped.

_________________
Kuro, Pitlord (Life gain)
Derevi (Manlands)
Marchesa (Modular)
Retired:
Krenko, Mob Boss (Goblins)
Zedruu the Christmas Goat (group hug)
Ramses Overdark (Assassin Deck)


Last edited by Bruticus on 2017-May-07 11:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Rath's edge and nantuko monastary
AgePosted: 2017-May-07 5:20 am 
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Joined: 2010-Dec-10 12:16 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
I've never used Rath's Edge as it seems very sub-par at 4 mana, tap and sac just for 1 damage. Why does a Bant Man-Land deck want/need ping (or is it a land sac outlet you really need)?

Though for pinging land decks I enjoy Hecatomb and Death Pits of Rath (not very Bant though...)

Nantuko Monastery I do use in my Hazezon Tamar Man-Land deck and it performs well. Threshold is an easy enough target in EDH that, unless it is in my opening hand, I rarely even have to think about it b the time I draw it.

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V/R

HK

Hazezon Tamar - Manland theme
Seshiro the Anointed - Snake Tribal
Jedit Ojanen of Efrava - Cat and Warrior Dual Tribal
Doran, the Seige Tower - Wall Tribal
Progenitus - Hydra themed Proliferate Deck
Karona, the False God - Backstabbing Hug


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 Post subject: Re: Rath's edge and nantuko monastary
AgePosted: 2017-May-07 11:04 am 
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Joined: 2010-Jan-25 4:50 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Thanks for the nantuko feedback, do you have a link to your hazezon deck list? I'm would love to see the lands that made the cut for that deck. as for rath's edge, I just want to cram as much utility into my lands as possible to have the strongest board presence when there are little to no nonland permanents on the field. Also being able to deal damage at instant speed and without attacking can be strong in corner cases. But essentially 5 mana is pretty steep for a hornet sting. The land sac outlet part isn't relevant for me.

_________________
Kuro, Pitlord (Life gain)
Derevi (Manlands)
Marchesa (Modular)
Retired:
Krenko, Mob Boss (Goblins)
Zedruu the Christmas Goat (group hug)
Ramses Overdark (Assassin Deck)


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 Post subject: Re: Rath's edge and nantuko monastary
AgePosted: 2017-May-07 1:09 pm 
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Joined: 2010-Dec-10 12:16 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Bruticus wrote:
Thanks for the nantuko feedback, do you have a link to your hazezon deck list?



I've been updating it, so some of these changes (Swap-ins from SOI, KLD and AKH blocks) aren't finalized until I can get some more playtesting; but here's where I currently sit:

General: Hazezon Tamar

Land
4x Plains
4x Forest
4x Mountain
Canopy Vista
Scattered Groves
Temple Garden
Rith's Grove
Cinder Glade
Sacred Foundry
Sheltered Thicket
Stomping Ground
Boros Garrison
Drownyard Temple
Flagstones of Trokair
Gavony Township
Gruul Turf
Homeward Path
Maze of Ith
Reliquary Tower
Rogue's Passage
Selesnya Sanctuary
Temple of the False God
Terramorphic Expanse
Vesuva
Windswept Heath
Wooded Foothills

Manlands and manland makers
Blinkmoth Nexus
Dryad Arbor
Forbidding Watchtower
Ghitu Encampment
Mutavault
Nantuko Monastery
Needle Spires
Raging Ravine
Stirring Wildwood
Treetop Village
Genju of the Cedars
Genju of the Fields
Genju of the Spires
Crusher Zendikon
Guardian Zendikon
Awaken the Ancient
Vastwood Zendikon

Creatures
Fertilid
Embodiment of Fury
Celestial Ancient
Embodiment of Insight
Titania, Protector of Argoth
Rubblehulk
Liege of the Tangle
Sylvan Advocate
Mina and Denn, Wildborn
Oracle of Mul Daya
Iroas, God of Victory
Argothian Enchantress
Femeref Enchantress
Azusa, Lost but Seeking
Knight of the Reliquary
Mesa Enchantress
Umbra Mystic
Verduran Enchantress
Eidolon of Blossoms
Walking Atlas

Enchantments

Trace of Abundance
Beastmaster's Magemark
Fencer's Magemark
Guardian's Magemark
Bear Umbra
Greater Auramancy
Sacred Ground
Enchantress's Presence
Retreat to Kazandu
Rites of Flourishing
Terra Eternal
Nature's Will
Mirari's Wake

Other:
Nissa, Worldwaker
Zuran Orb
Elixir of Immortality
Darksteel Garrison
Druidic Satchel
Seer's Sundial
Crop Rotation
Atarka's Command
Harrow
Consuming Sinkhole
Animist's Awakening
Gaea's Blessing
Planar Outburst
Winds of Rath

Watchlist: (Either recently swapped out, but may come back - or things I have been thinking of adding if I can decide what to lose to make room)
Vinelasher Kudzu
Budoka Gardener
Sylvan Scrying
Expedition Map
Ward of Bones
Slab Hammer
Ondu Rising
Planar Cleansing
Indestructibility
Dolmen Gate
Power Conduit
Wellspring
Broken Fall



As you can see, since I am using Genju and Zendikons to make more manlands, I also added an Enchantress subtheme. Since I have that subtheme, I found magemarks work very well.* The rest is a bunch of "lands matters" (some goodstuff, some outliers).

*Recent example that fits your earlier question; opponent attacked into my 7/7 First Striking Nantuko Monastery, which had Trace of abundance on it with all three magemarks in play.

_________________
V/R

HK

Hazezon Tamar - Manland theme
Seshiro the Anointed - Snake Tribal
Jedit Ojanen of Efrava - Cat and Warrior Dual Tribal
Doran, the Seige Tower - Wall Tribal
Progenitus - Hydra themed Proliferate Deck
Karona, the False God - Backstabbing Hug


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 Post subject: Re: Rath's edge and nantuko monastary
AgePosted: 2017-May-07 11:08 pm 
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Joined: 2010-Jan-25 4:50 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
looks like a fun build unique build. Definitely more aggressive than mine. Hope wellspring finds it's way back in, I always loved that card.

Why did you choose not to run Inkmoth and mishra's factory?

_________________
Kuro, Pitlord (Life gain)
Derevi (Manlands)
Marchesa (Modular)
Retired:
Krenko, Mob Boss (Goblins)
Zedruu the Christmas Goat (group hug)
Ramses Overdark (Assassin Deck)


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 Post subject: Re: Rath's edge and nantuko monastary
AgePosted: 2017-May-08 10:48 pm 
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Joined: 2010-Dec-10 12:16 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Bruticus wrote:
looks like a fun build unique build. Definitely more aggressive than mine. Hope wellspring finds it's way back in, I always loved that card.

Why did you choose not to run Inkmoth and mishra's factory?


Glad you like the looks of it. I would really have loved to make a Genju of the realms deck, but this is a close second and I've never seen anybody else using Magemarks and Zendikons/Genju this way before. Wellspring is taking a break because the 3 cmc slots are frankly overbooked and it having a good target for it was fairly rarely. I love it, but I wanted to test some other things for a bit.

I purposely passed on Inkmoth Nexus because of Infect*. As for Mishra's Factory... I honestly can't think of how I overlooked it.





* A) Online people will drop from the game as soon as they see Inkmoth "because you might be running a cheap 1 hit poison combo"
- and -
B) I personally disagree with how poison is handled in EDH and try not to run anything with infect in any decks I have. Honestly I think the onus is on WotC, not the RC, to fix poison. For example, they made a special rule for Two-headed Giant:

Quote:
104.3d If a player has ten or more poison counters, he or she loses the game the next time a player would receive priority. (This is a state-based action. See rule 704.)

121.1c If a player has ten or more poison counters, he or she loses the game as a state-based action. See rule 704. A player is “poisoned” if he or she has one or more poison counters. (See rule 810 for additional rules for Two-Headed Giant games.)

704.5c If a player has ten or more poison counters, he or she loses the game. Ignore this rule in
Two-Headed Giant games; see rule 704.5u instead.

704.5u In a Two-Headed Giant game, if a team has fifteen or more poison counters, that team loses the game. See rule 810, “Two-Headed Giant Variant.”

810.4. Each team has a shared life total, which starts at 30 life.

810.5. With the exception of life total and poison counters, a team’s resources (cards in hand, mana, and so on) are not shared in the Two-Headed Giant variant. Teammates may review each other’s hands and discuss strategies at any time. Teammates can’t manipulate each other’s cards or permanents.


When what should really happen is this:

Quote:
104.3d If a player has poison counters equal to or greater than half their starting life total, he or she loses the game the next time a player would receive priority. (This is a state-based action. See rule 704.)

121.1c If a player has poison counters equal to or greater than half their starting life total, he or she loses the game as a state-based action. See rule 704. A player is “poisoned” if he or she has one or more poison counters. (See rule 810 for additional rules for Two-Headed Giant games.)

704.5c If a player has poison counters equal to or greater than half their starting life total, he or she loses the game.


So, instead of a rule "fixing" poison for 2HG, Poison itself would always be half the starting life total and would work correctly in EDH and every other variant.

_________________
V/R

HK

Hazezon Tamar - Manland theme
Seshiro the Anointed - Snake Tribal
Jedit Ojanen of Efrava - Cat and Warrior Dual Tribal
Doran, the Seige Tower - Wall Tribal
Progenitus - Hydra themed Proliferate Deck
Karona, the False God - Backstabbing Hug


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