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 Post subject: almost a rules question, how does this work1
AgePosted: 2016-Oct-29 2:52 am 

Joined: 2016-Aug-13 10:26 am
Age: Wyvern
Brago, King Eternal in play, Strionic Resonator in play and you just played Parallax Tide

I was told if you stacked the triggers correctly you could exile all of your opponents lands, but i can't get my head around the fact that they return to play when it leaves play, I mean eventually that will resolve

so hows it work and how badly could you abuse it, in what other ways is it useful (I realise you can remove 5 of your own lands then blink it with brago making him able to untap your land)


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 Post subject: Re: almost a rules question, how does this work1
AgePosted: 2016-Oct-29 3:27 am 
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Joined: 2008-Mar-24 12:14 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Oakland, CA
mishkins11 wrote:
so hows it work and how badly could you abuse it

Let's look at a simpler example, replacing Brago + Resonator with Roon of the Hidden Realm:

Parallax Tide enters with fade counters. Remove a fade counter targeting an opponent's land, but don't pass priority ("passing priority" is Rules-speak for "allow the ability to resolve if no other player has anything to add to the stack"), instead activate Tide again targeting another land. Repeat until all fade counters are gone and you have several activations on the stack, and still without passing priority, activate Roon targeting Tide.

Now you pass priority, and assuming your opponents don't have a response, the abilities resolve in the reverse order of their activation.

So Roon's ability resolves first, exiling Tide, which causes its leaves-the-battlefield ability to trigger and put all cards it exiled back onto the battlefield. That ability resolves, but it doesn't see any cards exiled because the abilities to do so are all still waiting on the stack; they haven't resolved yet.

So nothing happens when that trigger resolves, and now each "exile target land" activation resolves, one by one, and will never be returned because even when Parallax Tide returns, it is a new object and has no memory of which cards were exiled by it in the past.

---

OK, so going back to Brago, the way this works is exactly the same, except that you can target any number of permanents when he deals combat damage. Target your Resonator and your Tide, and don't pass priority.

Now you want to tap a land for mana, then exile it with Parallax Tide, this time you pass priority to let this ability resolve (you will want to target a land that enters the battlefield untapped). Do this at least one more time, or even up to 4 times, so long as you are leaving at least 1 fade counter on Tide.

Now do the same thing as in the Roon example with the remaining fade counters on Tide, not passing priority at any time.

Now, activate Resonator, targeting Brago's ability, and pass priority, allowing the ability to copy. The copy will blink Tide and Resonator out and back in, and Tide will trigger on having left the battlefield. As with the Roon example, because your opponent's lands haven't left yet, nothing happens to them and they will be exiled forever when the activation that is targeting them finally resolves. But some of your lands were exiled already, so those ones come back now.

The lands you have return untapped, and the Resonator returns untapped, and Tide returns with new fade counters so you can repeat this combo infinitely.


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 Post subject: Re: almost a rules question, how does this work1
AgePosted: 2016-Oct-29 5:56 am 
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Joined: 2009-Aug-20 7:49 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Hampshire
As complex as it is obnoxious.

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 Post subject: Re: almost a rules question, how does this work1
AgePosted: 2016-Nov-06 12:38 pm 

Joined: 2014-Jul-26 11:35 am
Age: Elder Dragon
FWIW if you do this, especially if you do this online, I am going to make you play it out while I go get a drink and start a new game with other people.

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 Post subject: Re: almost a rules question, how does this work1
AgePosted: 2016-Nov-06 1:20 pm 
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Joined: 2012-Nov-27 4:39 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Midgard
As annoying combo decks can be at times, especially when they are tuned into a monster, I don't know if it's exactly fair to basically ostracize anyone who enjoys them. Just don't get too excited about making them feel bad for playing it.

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 Post subject: Re: almost a rules question, how does this work1
AgePosted: 2016-Nov-06 8:24 pm 

Joined: 2014-Jul-26 11:35 am
Age: Elder Dragon
I have absolutely no problem with combo decks. I have a problem with this for two reasons. Firstly, Brago hardly needs the help so it's an annoying combo in an already annoying deck. Secondly, this combo doesn't actually win the game, it just makes it near impossible for anyone else to win.

If you want to combo off that's fine, but I expect you to be able to win at the end of your long and convoluted chain of repeating events.

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 Post subject: Re: almost a rules question, how does this work1
AgePosted: 2016-Nov-06 11:01 pm 
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Location: New Hampshire
specter404 wrote:
If you want to combo off that's fine, but I expect you to be able to win at the end of your long and convoluted chain of repeating events.

This. The combo here is basically Stax on steroids.

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 Post subject: Re: almost a rules question, how does this work1
AgePosted: 2016-Nov-07 12:33 am 
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Joined: 2012-Nov-27 4:39 pm
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Location: Midgard
These same cards are used to create infinite Brago triggers to very legitimately win the game. The player performing this combo could be setting up a scenario where the winning combo happens without a hitch. In a competitive environment, this is perfectly acceptable.

In a casual setting, I'd fully expect the player pulling this off to be asked not to run it again. But this question, based on other posts made by the OP, I think should taken under the assumption that cutthroat shenanigans is expected in their meta.

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