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 Post subject: Two Deck Ideas: Inspiration needed
AgePosted: 2016-Jun-25 2:29 pm 
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Age: Elder Dragon
So basically, I have two ideas for decks. I have the general ideas there, but would like some input on the general and more of a focus.

Deck idea 1: White weenie. Thinking two directions. The first is kinda soft lock with a lot of hatebear-like cards and Thalia, Guardian of Thraben. Basically if GAAIV decks were an R-rated movie, this is the PG-13 remake of it. The other idea is Eight-and-a-Half Tails, pushing more of an equipment-based Voltron deck type, with Tails being the main but not only Tron monster and a tiny bit of a control theme going.

Deck idea 2: Black reanimator/disruptor. Basically the general will dictate how much effort is devoted to each side of it. Geth, Lord of the Vault would command a more disruptor deck, Ghoulcaller Gisa would head a more reanimator-focused deck, and either Kokusho, the Evening Star or Mikaeus, the Unhallowed would be for more of a mix.

Any and all input would be heavily appreciated.

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 Post subject: Re: Two Deck Ideas: Inspiration needed
AgePosted: 2016-Jun-25 4:49 pm 
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I'm not sold on WW disruptor, but if I'd have to pick a general or theme I'd go with Gaddock Teeg. The deck builds itself though, so look for an additional theme (like only CC over 4, heh).

Reanimator, now, that'd my thing. I like Balthor. Geth is one of my favorite cards, but that's no Reanimator (although there's nothing wrong with reanimating other people's property). You don't even need other creatures with Geth.

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 Post subject: Re: Two Deck Ideas: Inspiration needed
AgePosted: 2016-Jun-25 10:22 pm 

Joined: 2015-Jan-14 2:58 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
I like the idea of Thalia hatebears. There should be sufficient depth if you dip into artifacts; I can think of about a half dozen inclusions in white off the top of my head. Containment Preist, Hushwing Gryff, Spirit of the Labyrinth, Aegis of the Gods, Grand Abolisher, Ethersworn Canonist, Leonin Arbitor, Etc.

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 Post subject: Re: Two Deck Ideas: Inspiration needed
AgePosted: 2016-Jun-25 10:47 pm 

Joined: 2016-Feb-13 2:14 pm
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Since it's white weenie, perhaps you could run Crovax, Ascendant Hero as the commander?


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 Post subject: Re: Two Deck Ideas: Inspiration needed
AgePosted: 2016-Jun-26 12:53 am 

Joined: 2011-Sep-30 6:08 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Hatebears is a metagame tempo deck at heart. Legacy (and to lesser extent, Modern) is format full of cheap, powerful instants and sorceries. Thalia, unfortunately, is pretty close to a blank in most commander games. Making Brainstorm cost 1U on turn 2 is a big game. Making T&N cost 8GG on turn 7 is not. And, of course, your opponent's deck is going to be packed with random 4-6 CMC creatures that laugh at a 2/1 first strike. Sure, you will rarely "get" someone with a Spirit of the Labyrinth, but overall your deck is just going to feel like garbage against almost everything most of your opponents are trying to do.

Tron is not actually a weenie strategy, but it is definitely more viable than a true WW deck. You can also create a hybrid of the two by making many of your sword-carriers the hatebear creatures. Related to this, one of the most distruptive creatures not yet mentioned is Samurai of the Pale Curtain. And one of the best equipment to put on something holding a sword is O-Naginata.

Reanimator/Disruptor is the spectrum that describes nearly all mono-black decks. I think you are going to have to narrow your focus if you want help on that one.

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 Post subject: Re: Two Deck Ideas: Inspiration needed
AgePosted: 2016-Jun-26 1:19 am 
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crokaycete wrote:
Hatebears is a metagame tempo deck at heart. Legacy (and to lesser extent, Modern) is format full of cheap, powerful instants and sorceries. Thalia, unfortunately, is pretty close to a blank in most commander games. Making Brainstorm cost 1U on turn 2 is a big game. Making T&N cost 8GG on turn 7 is not. And, of course, your opponent's deck is going to be packed with random 4-6 CMC creatures that laugh at a 2/1 first strike. Sure, you will rarely "get" someone with a Spirit of the Labyrinth, but overall your deck is just going to feel like garbage against almost everything most of your opponents are trying to do.

Tron is not actually a weenie strategy, but it is definitely more viable than a true WW deck. You can also create a hybrid of the two by making many of your sword-carriers the hatebear creatures. Related to this, one of the most distruptive creatures not yet mentioned is Samurai of the Pale Curtain. And one of the best equipment to put on something holding a sword is O-Naginata.

Reanimator/Disruptor is the spectrum that describes nearly all mono-black decks. I think you are going to have to narrow your focus if you want help on that one.

I would certainly agree with everything above about a hate-bears deck. It's going to be really tough to pull off, and most likely you won't be satisfied with it unless your group has turned Commander into Vintage/Legacy.

With mono-Black reanimator, you'll need to decide whether you want small or large reanimation. Large will be more like a combo deck or trying to steal whatever big/good thing your opponents will have. Small is different in that you're wanting to lock your opponent out of their creatures with small creatures--Reassembling Skeleton, Brood of Cockroaches, Nether Shadow, etc--and sacrifice effects and Pestilence. It might be possible to do both in the same deck, but it's normally better to focus on one or the other.

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 Post subject: Re: Two Deck Ideas: Inspiration needed
AgePosted: 2016-Jun-26 1:56 am 
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Joined: 2010-Dec-10 12:16 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Neither Hatebear nor Voltron say "White Weenie" to me.

White Weenie - I would suggest going with a token making general like Rhys the Redeemed, Brimaz, or Darien. Soldier tribal is a great weenie strategy (W, RW or RGW) as there are a lot of Soldier Token makers, Soldier Lords and non-creature Soldier support cards. Jazal Goldmane could do a strong Cat tribal token build as well.

White Hatebear - If staying mono-colored I would suggest Elesh Norn, Michiko or Linvala over Thalia (depending on direction, and how competitive the meta is, of course). Generally you can either make the game hard to play for everyone (but you) or pseudo-pillowfort with retribution for those that attack you.

White Voltron - 8.5 Tails is a good Voltron general because of the inherent self-protection, but I will say I despise playing against him. After two games I knew I never wanted to play across from that General again (though I still see it soooo much online). It is really easy to make the deck cross that line for anything but the most competitive meta. I would suggest Kemba, or Raksha first. Possibly Odric, or Kytheon could also make decent Voltron builds (Concerted Effort effect and Indestructible, respectively).

Black un-Death: I feel it's very difficult to avoid the Goodstuff Traptm here. Personally, I would only consider a General I have not seen used (at least this way) before. Iname, Death Aspect could work as a way to get targets into the yard (she's worked well in the 99 of my two Spirit Tribal decks). I haven't seen anybody do right by Lim-Dul yet, either. Ditto Chainer, (though the exile clause will take creativity). If 2or 3 color is an option, there are even more rare gems to be found.

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 Post subject: Re: Two Deck Ideas: Inspiration needed
AgePosted: 2016-Jun-26 6:00 am 
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Age: Elder Dragon
crokaycete wrote:
Hatebears is a metagame tempo deck at heart. Legacy (and to lesser extent, Modern) is format full of cheap, powerful instants and sorceries. Thalia, unfortunately, is pretty close to a blank in most commander games. Making Brainstorm cost 1U on turn 2 is a big game. Making T&N cost 8GG on turn 7 is not. And, of course, your opponent's deck is going to be packed with random 4-6 CMC creatures that laugh at a 2/1 first strike. Sure, you will rarely "get" someone with a Spirit of the Labyrinth, but overall your deck is just going to feel like garbage against almost everything most of your opponents are trying to do.

I probably should have done a better job elaborating. What you're saying is 100% correct. However, my goal was to go for the general feel of a hatebear deck, except scaled up for EDH, like a hate-baloth deck or something of that nature. Thalia herself will be mostly useful during early game, stifling mostly artifact and spell-based ramp while letting me get the heavy hitters like new Kozilek or Archangel of Tithes. And even late game, while an 8GG T&N isn't that but of a deal, a 9GG one that brings the creatures into a Blind Obedience and a Torpor Orb is.

As for the black deck, I've narrowed it down to either Gisa or Geth, with a possible Zombie subtheme for Gisa.

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 Post subject: Re: Two Deck Ideas: Inspiration needed
AgePosted: 2016-Jun-26 1:52 pm 
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Uktabi_Kong wrote:
I probably should have done a better job elaborating. What you're saying is 100% correct. However, my goal was to go for the general feel of a hatebear deck, except scaled up for EDH, like a hate-baloth deck or something of that nature. Thalia herself will be mostly useful during early game, stifling mostly artifact and spell-based ramp while letting me get the heavy hitters like new Kozilek or Archangel of Tithes.

Sounds like Chancellor of the Annex might be a card for you.

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 Post subject: Re: Two Deck Ideas: Inspiration needed
AgePosted: 2016-Jun-27 1:04 am 

Joined: 2011-Sep-30 6:08 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Uktabi_Kong wrote:
Thalia herself will be mostly useful during early game, stifling mostly artifact and spell-based ramp while letting me get the heavy hitters like new Kozilek or Archangel of Tithes.
Depending on the ratio of spell vs artifact ramp, I think I would probably perfer Kataki to fill this role. While Thalia rapidly becomes totally irrelevant in most matchups, Kataki will always do something to constrict mana of anyone playing artifacts, even in the late game when stuff has already been cast. While I think Archangel of Tithes is a vaguely acceptable Magic card, planning to play a 10-drop Eldrazi in mono-white is... ambitious.

Also, in the Hate Midrange archetype, Angel of Jubilation is a boss. Turns off all kinds of stuff people like to do in EDH.

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 Post subject: Re: Two Deck Ideas: Inspiration needed
AgePosted: 2016-Jul-12 7:47 am 
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Age: Elder Dragon
I liked the eight-and-a-half-tails deck, but that's because I like control decks and quirky interactions. Turning everything that matters into white while it is on the stack then playing
circle of protection: white
Rune of protection: white
Sword of Light and shadow
Sword of war and peace
Seems fun to me.

If you were going into a hatebear style gameplay I would recommend playing Kataki, war's wage instead of thalia.

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 Post subject: Re: Two Deck Ideas: Inspiration needed
AgePosted: 2016-Jul-12 9:07 am 

Joined: 2011-Aug-18 3:35 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Bruticus wrote:
I liked the eight-and-a-half-tails deck, but that's because I like control decks and quirky interactions. Turning everything that matters into white while it is on the stack then playing
circle of protection: white
Rune of protection: white
Sword of Light and shadow
Sword of war and peace
Seems fun to me.

If you were going into a hatebear style gameplay I would recommend playing Kataki, war's wage instead of thalia.


Alternatively you can turn opposing sword of X and W white along with all other equipment on the creature to force it to fall off.


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 Post subject: Re: Two Deck Ideas: Inspiration needed
AgePosted: 2016-Jul-18 4:07 am 
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Bruticus wrote:
If you were going into a hatebear style gameplay I would recommend playing Kataki, war's wage instead of thalia.


Yeah, I second Kataki. You can even mix in some spirit tribal elements, 'cause there's some pretty good lockdown stuff to go with it.

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 Post subject: Re: Two Deck Ideas: Inspiration needed
AgePosted: 2016-Aug-05 9:46 pm 
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I must say, Kataki does seems like a good starting point for hatebears, but mono-W traditionally has the most problems with getting cards of all colors. That's the biggest problem, IMO. Trouble with Kataki is that it kinda hoses artifact drawing and equipment on your side. I don't really see how a deck like that would work. I'm afraid it's just gonna create a lot of frustration for you as the pilot.

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 Post subject: Re: Two Deck Ideas: Inspiration needed
AgePosted: 2016-Aug-06 12:53 pm 
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What do you mean "getting cards of all colors"? I think white has everything you could want minus draw power. The solutions are just more round about. Personally I find it to be an interesting deck building challenge.

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