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 Post subject: Werewolves vs Vampires
AgePosted: 2016-May-08 10:03 am 

Joined: 2011-Apr-07 11:38 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Thinking of making a duel deck type project where the 2 decks are meant to face each other. My decks tend to be played against other decks of mine, so I only need to worry about balancing them together. With my love for tribal, Innistrad, and underworld, I've kind settled on Vampires vs Werewolves.

Werewolves:

Obviously I'm going to run all the RG werewolves from the innistrad blocks and will probably just use arlinn as my commander. I'm trying to figure out how I want to incorporate their human side as well. Maybe I'll utilize the equipment that is better when equipped by humans.

Vampires:

I'm trying to decide between RB for innistrad vampires or BW and utilizing Sorin as the commander (to balance out using arlinn). There are a handful of other BW vampires, but most of the deck would involve black if I go this path.


What other flavors, themes should I run in these decks?

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 Post subject: Re: Werewolves vs Vampires
AgePosted: 2016-May-08 10:24 am 
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Joined: 2012-Nov-27 4:39 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Midgard
Having had an Olivia Voldaren deck for a while and made a couple attempts at werewolf decks--the latest one with Ruric Thar as the commander--vampires are much more powerful. Vampires have a ton of lords available, making it difficult for werewolves to compete without diluting the deck with a lot of generic pump effects and good-stuff cards (like Eldrazi Monument and Akroma's Memorial).

My current Olivia Voldaren deck utilizes a lot of the Binding Agony-type effects. It encourages me not to just take over everyone else's creatures. As for werewolves...I still can't get them to work quite right. I want the fight mechanic to do a lot of heavy lifting, but I think I need a lot of deathtouch equipment before it works that way.

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 Post subject: Re: Werewolves vs Vampires
AgePosted: 2016-May-08 11:38 am 

Joined: 2011-Apr-07 11:38 am
Age: Elder Dragon
I'm not opposed to holding back on the vampires if I need to, in order to balance them against the werewolves. I'm thinking of going with the BW vampires partially for the flying aspect, which green can counter with anti-flying spells.

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 Post subject: Re: Werewolves vs Vampires
AgePosted: 2016-May-08 11:56 am 
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Joined: 2010-Dec-10 12:16 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
I have both of these decks, but I went with RGW for werewolves and wolves (since most INN buffs are for both, and things like Immerwolf work for werewolves). Wolves, in general, were primarily GW for a long time, with a few R wolves prior to INN. White also gives a nice control element that helps transform (and keep transformed) the werewolves. Jacques is currently leading it, without a better Naya general to take the lead.

For Vampires, I went with Garza Zol UBR since there are some good UB vampires as well. Adding U allowed a minor proliferate subtheme, which was nice since INN vampires have a counter theme on damaging opponent, but most vampires before that had a counter theme on killing creatures. UBR also gave me the widest pool to select from, since only about 6 of the vampires have W in their casting cost, with a few more possibly having a W CI.

By my estimate, Vampire counts are
100 Black
20 Red
6 BW
4 UB
5 BR
3 UBR

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Hazezon Tamar - Manland theme
Seshiro the Anointed - Snake Tribal
Jedit Ojanen of Efrava - Cat and Warrior Dual Tribal
Doran, the Seige Tower - Wall Tribal
Progenitus - Hydra themed Proliferate Deck
Karona, the False God - Backstabbing Hug


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 Post subject: Re: Werewolves vs Vampires
AgePosted: 2016-May-09 3:55 am 

Joined: 2011-Apr-07 11:38 am
Age: Elder Dragon
I'm pretty set on BW vs RG at this point. Right now I'm looking for on theme removal and other non creature stuff (like primal rage and fervor for the werewolves). Any BW removal that fits vampire theme or anti werewolf or RG that is on werewolf or anti vampire theme suggestions would be awesome.

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 Post subject: Re: Werewolves vs Vampires
AgePosted: 2016-May-10 12:52 am 

Joined: 2013-Aug-20 4:37 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Boston
It would be criminal to leave out Go for the Throat.


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 Post subject: Re: Werewolves vs Vampires
AgePosted: 2016-May-10 4:25 am 

Joined: 2015-Jan-14 2:58 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Victim of night, too.

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Antis wrote:
I'm seriously suspicious of any card that makes Doubling Season look fair and reasonable.


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 Post subject: Re: Werewolves vs Vampires
AgePosted: 2016-May-10 5:24 am 

Joined: 2013-Aug-20 4:37 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Boston
Spectrar Ghost wrote:

100% on flavor, but not so great if you are intending it to play against a werewolf deck.

Here is a list of the removal spells I put in a Baron Sengir deck for my brother-in-law's fiance. Some cards are more on-theme than others, so use your judgment.

Feast of Blood
Urge to Feed
Go for the Throat
Victim of Night (obviously don't use this)
Mutilate
Tendrils of Corruption
Barter in Blood
Sever the Bloodline
Corrupt
Black Sun's Zenith
Life's Finale
Consume Spirit


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 Post subject: Re: Werewolves vs Vampires
AgePosted: 2016-May-10 5:28 am 

Joined: 2013-Jun-23 10:18 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Sorin's Thirst and Sorin's Vengeance?

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Current Commanders: 6/32.

Daretti, Scrap Savant (Red Artefacts).
Prime Speaker Zegana (Simic Voltron).
Rubinia Soulsinger (Bant Polymorphs).
Kess, Dissident Mage (Grixis Treasure).
Sek'Kuar, Deathkeeper (Jund Apostles).
Tariel, Reckoner of Souls (Mardu Judo).


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 Post subject: Re: Werewolves vs Vampires
AgePosted: 2016-May-11 2:27 am 

Joined: 2008-Aug-08 6:34 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Rouen, France
For the werewolves, anything that allows them to "fight" opposing creatures is flavourful.

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Current decks:
Sydri's random pile of cards with "Artifact" on them
Scarab God Zombie Horde
Sissay 5c Superfriends
Morophon Eldrazi (5C Devoid)
Grenzo's Goblins


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 Post subject: Re: Werewolves vs Vampires
AgePosted: 2016-May-11 2:44 am 
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Joined: 2010-Dec-10 12:16 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Many of these will be obvious, some less so:

Vampire:
Blade of the Bloodchief\
Wolfhunter's Quiver
Bloodchief Ascension
Taste of Blood
Vampire's Bite
Call the Bloodline
Eternal Thirst
Feast of Blood
Oversold Cemetery (loose theme, also good for Zombies)
Urge to Feed
Grisly Transformation
Mark of the Vampire
Blood Tithe
Spread the Sickness (if using counters, ties to spreading Vampirism)
Exquisite Blood
Culling Sun (Vampires hate the Sun, and night side creatures have no CMC)
Blood Tribute

Werewolf:
Wooden Stake
Blazing Torch
Aspect of Wolf
Bower Passage
Full Moon's Rise
Gather the Pack
Moonlight Hunt
Alpha Status
Howlpack Resurgence
Hunter's Ambush
Hunter's Insight
Sword of Body and Mind
Wolfcaller's Howl
Hunter's Prowess
Raised by Wolves
Feed the Pack
Howl of the Night Pack
Alpha Brawl

For removal, to me the options that seem closest to the themes are:

Vampire:
Go for the Throat
Premature Burial
Devour in Shadow
Anguished Unmaking
Mortify
Necrobite
Rend Flesh
Chill to the Bone
Neck Snap
Unholy Hunger
Liturgy in Blood
Consume the Meek
Sunscour

Werewolf:
Berserk
Mortal Wound
Ancient Grudge
Primitive Justice
Smash to Smithereens
Back to Nature
Stomp and Howl
Slice in Twain
Wild Swing
Demolish
Wreak Havoc
Predator, Flagship (it is a Predator...)

_________________
V/R

HK

Hazezon Tamar - Manland theme
Seshiro the Anointed - Snake Tribal
Jedit Ojanen of Efrava - Cat and Warrior Dual Tribal
Doran, the Seige Tower - Wall Tribal
Progenitus - Hydra themed Proliferate Deck
Karona, the False God - Backstabbing Hug


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 Post subject: Re: Werewolves vs Vampires
AgePosted: 2016-May-11 4:18 am 

Joined: 2013-Aug-20 4:37 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Boston
Treamayne wrote:
Culling Sun (Vampires hate the Sun, and night side creatures have no CMC)

Night side creatures now calculate CMC based on their day side.


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 Post subject: Re: Werewolves vs Vampires
AgePosted: 2016-May-11 1:09 pm 
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Joined: 2010-Dec-10 12:16 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
JJackson wrote:
Treamayne wrote:
Culling Sun (Vampires hate the Sun, and night side creatures have no CMC)

Night side creatures now calculate CMC based on their day side.


Thanks, didn't realize the change. Though it seems like some backpeddling from their previous "we won't use stats that aren't face-up" stance. Wasn't that the primary argument for creating the Color indicator? The Face-down side doesn't exist so the game can't reference it.

For everyone's reference, the applicable section change:
Comprehensive Rules wrote:
202.3b The converted mana cost of a double-faced permanent’s back face is calculated as though it had the mana cost of its front face. This is a change from previous rules. If a permanent is a copy of the back face of a double-faced card (even if the card representing that copy is itself a double-faced card), the converted mana cost of that permanent is 0.

_________________
V/R

HK

Hazezon Tamar - Manland theme
Seshiro the Anointed - Snake Tribal
Jedit Ojanen of Efrava - Cat and Warrior Dual Tribal
Doran, the Seige Tower - Wall Tribal
Progenitus - Hydra themed Proliferate Deck
Karona, the False God - Backstabbing Hug


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