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 Post subject: How do you build your manabase?
AgePosted: 2016-Jan-10 1:41 pm 

Joined: 2015-Jan-14 2:58 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Tangentially related to the Off Color Fetch discussion. How many lands do you include? Which cycles of dual/trilands? What utilities always seem to find their way in? What never makes the cut? Why? Finally, how do you distribute your basics?

I usually play with 37-38 lands. I went as low as 34 for Purpheros, which had a very low curve and plenty of rituals, and up to 41 for Hanna, which is a dedicated control deck with higher demands.

I generally consider the following for each significant color set (as colors allow).

Shocks
Checklands
Tangos
Painlands
Signetlands
KTK Refuge
ZEN Refuge
RAV Karoos
Guildgates
Trilands
Lairs

That list is in order of priority, so sometimes I'll be missing a Shock or Check and include a lower priority Guildgate as a standin in a three color deck until I have one open. From time to time I'll have a Fetch, Filter, or even ABUR Dual free and include it in place of a weaker land. Certain decks only include certain pairings, usually if there is a clearly dominant color in the deck. For instance, in my Karador Relentless Rats deck, I only play sets of BG and BW lands since the deck is predominantly black.

I'll always include a Command Tower in a multicolor deck. I'll include Opal Palace in any deck which cares about the red zone or +1/+1 counters. Arcane Lighthouse gets included in basically every deck as well.

Stuff I'll never include:

Cyclelands. The potential upside is far less important than coming into play untapped. A well built deck minimizes flood, which means that you bemoan the loss of tempo far more than you wish for anything but another land.

Storage Lands. The Fallen Empires cycle is useless due to the need to remain tapped. The Mercadian Masques cycle is less so since they tap to charge, but only marginally since they ETB tapped and need to be charged for an additional turn, meaning a T4 play will get you a single mana by T6. The Time Spiral cycle is the best of the bunch, being ETB untapped, tapping for colorless, and not needing to tap to discharge, but I've never been happy to play one.

Vivids. These are such short term fixing I'd almost always have an extra dual or tri instead. A regular triland is strictly better than a Vivid in 3c. They have some utility in 5c, though there are far better options.

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 Post subject: Re: How do you build your manabase?
AgePosted: 2016-Jan-10 3:31 pm 

Joined: 2013-Aug-20 4:37 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Boston
My starting point is 40 lands, and I shoot for around 10 basics, though that varies a lot based on the demands of the deck.

For a 3 color build I rank lands about like so, based on availability.

always include:
Command Tower
On color fetches
ABUR duals
Shocks
Triland

often include:
Temples
Filters
Checklands
Terramorphic Expanse/Evolving Wilds
Off color fetches (if there is a need for lands to go to the gy, shuffle effects, or additional fixing)
RAV Karoos
KTK & ZEN Refuges

Sometimes:
ETB tapped duals without upside
Panoramas

Signetlands would probably make the often include category if I had them, but they are from a time I didn't really play any Magic.

I haven't played with Battlelands enough to call whether they are always or often, but they are quite good. I think they will end up being always for 2 color and often for 3 color.

I don't automatically include the cylelands, but there are good reasons to include them sometimes. Pairing them up with Life from the Loam, for example. If I have a 3-color deck that is only splashing the third color, I think that is also a good place for a cycle land. My Zurgo Helmsmasherdeck is a good example; it only has Zurgo and Undying Evil that require {B}, so I run Barren Moor because I don't ever need a second source of black.

I've had good experiences with Vivids in 3-color decks as well, though they are near the bottom of my list of playable trilands. If you have something that has a clear tertiary color and ok fixing otherwise, you can use them to pad out your total a little. Depending on the deck they might be better or worse than Guildgates. I'd put them above Lairs, though, since they don't stall your mana available going forward.


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 Post subject: Re: How do you build your manabase?
AgePosted: 2016-Jan-10 8:35 pm 

Joined: 2008-Aug-08 6:34 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Rouen, France
Spectrar Ghost wrote:
Tangentially related to the Off Color Fetch discussion. How many lands do you include? Which cycles of dual/trilands? What utilities always seem to find their way in? What never makes the cut? Why? Finally, how do you distribute your basics?

I usually play with 37-38 lands. I went as low as 34 for Purpheros, which had a very low curve and plenty of rituals, and up to 41 for Hanna, which is a dedicated control deck with higher demands.


For me, I'm never below 36, never above 40, and correct the mana volume requirement with rocks or mana dudes as needed.

Spectrar Ghost wrote:
I generally consider the following for each significant color set (as colors allow).

Shocks
Checklands
Tangos
Painlands
Signetlands
KTK Refuge
ZEN Refuge
RAV Karoos
Guildgates
Trilands
Lairs

That list is in order of priority, so sometimes I'll be missing a Shock or Check and include a lower priority Guildgate as a standin in a three color deck until I have one open. From time to time I'll have a Fetch, Filter, or even ABUR Dual free and include it in place of a weaker land. Certain decks only include certain pairings, usually if there is a clearly dominant color in the deck. For instance, in my Karador Relentless Rats deck, I only play sets of BG and BW lands since the deck is predominantly black.


I'm a total maniac when it comes to land cycles, I couldn't do what you do and add free "good" lands to decks. If I have a 3-color deck that I'm putting a Shock or an ABUR dual into, I will put the full set in. That generally means I have to cut them from other decks and fix that mana base as a consequence. This means I have decks with ABUR Duals but no shocks, Filters but no checks etc.

I'd really love a second set of filters or ABUs to mkae some of those choices a little easier but I don't have the budget just yet.

I noticed that you don't have Theros scry-lands on your list. You don't rate them above the refuges?

When you say Signet lands, you're talking about the horrible Odyssey ones?

Here's my list:
ABUR Duals
Shocks
Checklands
Tangos - I can't wait for the enemy cycle to come in.
Trilands
Theros Scry Lands
RAV Karoos
KTK Refuge / ZEN Refuge
Painlands
Guildgates
Signetlands
Lairs




Spectrar Ghost wrote:
Stuff I'll never include:

Cyclelands. The potential upside is far less important than coming into play untapped. A well built deck minimizes flood, which means that you bemoan the loss of tempo far more than you wish for anything but another land.


I agree on the other 2 but I do have a place for cycle lands in a specific deck and I guess that's what most the deck-building choices are: is this card a fit for what I'm trying to do here? One of the big cards in my Tasigur Lands deck is Wurm Harvest and having that extra 1-2 cycle land in the 'yard is sometimes important.

The real question is what it takes the place of? Is it a land slot because sometimes you need to put them into play? Is it a spell slot because it's generally a cantrip/enabler and not specifically mana? And, of course, the important Barren Moor or Polluted Mire dilema? The former ties up a colored mana and restricts your ability to cycle it, the latter costs twice as much but you can cycle off anything.

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 Post subject: Re: How do you build your manabase?
AgePosted: 2016-Jan-10 10:22 pm 
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Joined: 2010-Dec-10 12:16 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
B+N=Ceil(L(A/(100-L)))

Where:
B=Minimum Number of Basic lands for a each Color
N=Number of non-basics that produce a given color
L=Total land count (36 for mono color decks , +1 for each additional color)
A, B, etc = Total number of cards with a cost (casting or activation) in the given color

So I start with totaling the costs for each color of the deck. Calculate the Left side of the equation for each color. Add my dual, tri and "any color" lands first. Calculate N for each color to determine B for each color. Add the basics. Use remaining slots for Utility lands or buffering the color curves (mono-color utility lands, etc).

Example:
A= 14 Blue
B= 25 Red
C= 24 Green

As a three color deck, L=38

A: B+N=Ceil(38(15/62)) > B+N= Ceil(9.12) > B+N=10
B: B+N=Ceil(38(27/62)) > B+N=Ceil(16.54) > B+N=17
C: B+N=Ceil(38(26/62)) > B+N=Ceil(15.93) > B+N=16

The deck has 6 Lands that produce all three colors (Reflecting Pool, Meteor Crater, Opal Palace, Primal Beyond, Command Tower, Cavern of Souls), 3 Shocks and 2 Bounce Lands (Because it has some Landfall - Simic Growth Chamber, Gruul Turf)

A: B+7= 10
B: B+8= 17
C: B+7= 16

B=3

So adding a minimum of three for each basic puts meat 20 total so far and meets minimum count (Blue).

That leaves me 18 for correction, fetch and utility.
- I bumped the basic count to 4 each because I have some basic ramp. (23 - 11, 12, 11)
- Added Mono-Utility x 5 (28 - 12, 14, 13 - Tolaria West, Hammerheim, Flamekin Village, Oran-Rief, the Vastwood, Mosswort Bridge)
- Search x 4 (32 - 15, 18, 16 - Misty Rainforest, Wooded Foothills, Evolving Wilds, Terramorphic Expanse)
- Other x 6 (38 - 16, 20, 17 - Lumbering Falls, Raging Ravine, Skarrg, the Rage Pits, Winding Canyons, Reliquary Tower, Temple of the False God)

Note: Deck has Diamond Valley but that is in a spell slot


Of course playtesting helps tweak the final product, but this usually works for starting numbers.

_________________
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Hazezon Tamar - Manland theme
Seshiro the Anointed - Snake Tribal
Jedit Ojanen of Efrava - Cat and Warrior Dual Tribal
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 Post subject: Re: How do you build your manabase?
AgePosted: 2016-Jan-10 10:32 pm 

Joined: 2015-Jan-14 2:58 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
zimagic wrote:
I noticed that you don't have Theros scry-lands on your list. You don't rate them above the refuges?

When you say Signet lands, you're talking about the horrible Odyssey ones?


Somehow, even though the Theros Temples are auto includes and are the highest rated Taplands for me, I always skip over them when making a list. I don't know why. Yes, they should be above the refuges.

The Signets are indeed the Odyssey lands. I wouldn't call them horrible. As a first land play they suck. But then, you never keep a one land hand anyway. After that they're quite good. They can fix off any type of mana - even a third color or colorless. Of course, their output is fixed, so if you need UU for a counterspell a Skycloud Expanse and an Island won't be much use. They're at the bottom of the ETB untapped list, but they're always useful when available, I find.

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 Post subject: Re: How do you build your manabase?
AgePosted: 2016-Jan-10 10:48 pm 

Joined: 2013-Jun-23 10:18 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Good thread.

This varies slightly by deck, but the general guideline:

I normally shoot for 38 lands, but mono-colour decks normally in practice have one less because I allow for a spell land (Eye of Ugin, Maze's Ith, etc). Two of my decks have 36 due to extremely low curves (like, 30 Shadowborn Apostle low).

I normally begin with land cycles, then adjust to fit the needs of the deck as necessary. For a typical three colour deck.

3x tri-land "cycle" (Command Tower, Reflecting Pool, ETB tapped tri-land).
3x Shocklands
3x Checklands
3x Bouncelands (these get trimmed back first when colours need adjusting).
15-17 basics (adjust as necessary)

Where possible, I'm quite fond of the ramping lands (Blighted Woodland, Krosan Verge, Myriad Landscape). When more fixing of one colour pair is necessary, we go to filterlands and Temples. I'll normally also throw in the tangoland of that colour pair, but this is complicated by only half the cycle existing.

I should point out here that I don't actually own on-colour fetchlands or ABUR duals, and they would obviously upgrade the bouncelands if I did. This configuration normally leaves room for about 5-7 utility lands depending on the number of basics and ramping lands.

In two-colour decks, it's a lot simpler. Command Tower, Shockland, Checkland, Bounceland, Temple, Filterland, maybe Reflecting Pool if it's not needed elsewhere. Add ramp lands and fill the rest with basics. Job done.

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 Post subject: Re: How do you build your manabase?
AgePosted: 2016-Jan-11 1:12 am 

Joined: 2008-Aug-08 6:34 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Rouen, France
Treamayne wrote:
B+N=Ceil(L(A/(100-L)))

Where:
B=Minimum Number of Basic lands for a each Color
N=Number of non-basics that produce a given color
L=Total land count (36 for mono color decks , +1 for each additional color)
A, B, etc = Total number of cards with a cost (casting or activation) in the given color

So I start with totaling the costs for each color of the deck. Calculate the Left side of the equation for each color. Add my dual, tri and "any color" lands first. Calculate N for each color to determine B for each color. Add the basics. Use remaining slots for Utility lands or buffering the color curves (mono-color utility lands, etc).

Example:
A= 14 Blue
B= 25 Red
C= 24 Green

As a three color deck, L=38

A: B+N=Ceil(38(15/62)) > B+N= Ceil(9.12) > B+N=10
B: B+N=Ceil(38(27/62)) > B+N=Ceil(16.54) > B+N=17
C: B+N=Ceil(38(26/62)) > B+N=Ceil(15.93) > B+N=16

The deck has 6 Lands that produce all three colors (Reflecting Pool, Meteor Crater, Opal Palace, Primal Beyond, Command Tower, Cavern of Souls), 3 Shocks and 2 Bounce Lands (Because it has some Landfall - Simic Growth Chamber, Gruul Turf)

A: B+7= 10
B: B+8= 17
C: B+7= 16

B=3

So adding a minimum of three for each basic puts meat 20 total so far and meets minimum count (Blue).

That leaves me 18 for correction, fetch and utility.
- I bumped the basic count to 4 each because I have some basic ramp. (23 - 11, 12, 11)
- Added Mono-Utility x 5 (28 - 12, 14, 13 - Tolaria West, Hammerheim, Flamekin Village, Oran-Rief, the Vastwood, Mosswort Bridge)
- Search x 4 (32 - 15, 18, 16 - Misty Rainforest, Wooded Foothills, Evolving Wilds, Terramorphic Expanse)
- Other x 6 (38 - 16, 20, 17 - Lumbering Falls, Raging Ravine, Skarrg, the Rage Pits, Winding Canyons, Reliquary Tower, Temple of the False God)

Note: Deck has Diamond Valley but that is in a spell slot


Of course playtesting helps tweak the final product, but this usually works for starting numbers.


Wait, what? That's some serious addition & subtraction, right there!
Could you apply this to any deck? If I linked my Tasigur deck, you could work out the exact mix?

_________________
Current decks:
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Scarab God Zombie Horde
Sissay 5c Superfriends
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 Post subject: Re: How do you build your manabase?
AgePosted: 2016-Jan-11 1:33 am 
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Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Hampshire
zimagic wrote:
Wait, what? That's some serious addition & subtraction, right there!

I use a similar approach, though I've never attempted to write a formula for it. The idea is to have the ratio of colors in your landbase roughly mirror the ratio of colors in your spells, then tweak as needed - for example, if you're in 3 colors but you want to consistently have a certain one early on, you might skew the mana base toward that color a little.

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 Post subject: Re: How do you build your manabase?
AgePosted: 2016-Jan-11 1:52 am 

Joined: 2008-Nov-30 12:36 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Fortunately, I'm lucky enough to have pretty much all the duals I need to more or less "optimize" my mana for most decks.

1 and 2 color decks are not that interesting - even with every worthwhile dual I can run in a two-color deck a mana base is still going to be mostly basics. I usually find I can afford to be a bit more generous with utility lands like High Market or other colorless-producing lands that have extra effects. I can also run more color-producing lands with effects like, say, Llanowar Reborn. Typically, Bojuka Bog is about the only one of these types of lands I will run without hesitation or question in a three-color deck, but in two-color decks I can happily play the lesser ones. I also tend to run the 1-mana cyclers (Forgotten Cave, etc) in two-color decks.

In general my land count is nearly always 38. I have gone as low as 36, but that usually doesn't pan out too well, so I'm more likely to go to 37. I almost never run 40 because every time I do I wind up loosing to mana flood WAY too often, but obviously I make exceptions to theme - Angry Omnath runs about 42, I think, and I still feel like that needs to be a bit higher even.

For 3-color decks, which are my bread and butter, so to speak, again I generally stick to a hard and fast 37 or 38 rule, and I basically RUN ALL THE DUALS!!! The only cycles of dual lands where I have some serious gaps are Fetches (basically the ZEN half, of course - Khans took care of my ONS Fetch needs for life), and the Shadowmoor filter lands.

So any deck I build is pretty much guaranteed to have the ABUR duals, Shocks, checklands (Glacial Fortess, etc) and scry lands. From there, I will include whatever Fetches and Filter lands I have available, and I basically always run the RAV karoos as well. If I am missing any fetches or filters, I'll fill in those gaps with the corresponding pain lands, OR take that as an opportunity to plug in a Kor Haven or a Township or whatever utility land I was thinking about maybe playing.

Basically I'm to the point where the Pain Lands are bench-warmers and only come in when I am seriously starting to stretch my dual collection too thin, and stuff like Refuges, Guild Gates or the Khans lifelands are purely unplayable to me, at least in three-color decks.

I will run one or two of them in two-color decks if need be, but never more than two.

I have very, very few of the Scars duals, and I don't like them much anyway. I also only have like two of the BFZ duals, but luckily both are in the decks that really care the most about them - Karametra and Omnath. Eventually I will get full sets of these, though, as they're pretty good, but I really only like them in two-color decks. My three color decks probably don't run enough basics to make these good.

And, finally, I am always happy running the Khans/Shards tri-lands if able, and I usually run Reflecting Pool, Command Tower and occasionally a City of Brass or Mana Confluence if needed. I love being able to go T1 tri-land into T2 Reflecting pool and basically never having to worry about color screw again.

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 Post subject: Re: How do you build your manabase?
AgePosted: 2016-Jan-11 4:22 am 
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I really love cycle lands, but that is because I have Crucible of worlds and rings of brighthearth in many decks. Those two cards turn cycle lands into sheer card advantage without taking up spell slots. It's also why I love fetches and why I like the timespiral storage lands.

Most of my decks have around 36-38 lands of which I always have at least 10 basics. Lately I have been testing out a theory that one of my friends shared with me, start with 40 lands and then for every 2 early mana ramp cards, cut 1 land. So for example one of my decks has 35 lands, but 10 early mana ramp cards. Still testing the theory since his place plays with free first partial paris and my group plays full mulligan.

My list mirrors most of yours, but since I play so many utility lands I put a high value on the onslaught signet lands. I usually have way too much colorless mana around, and having the ability to filter some of it into colored mana is awesome.

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 Post subject: Re: How do you build your manabase?
AgePosted: 2016-Jan-11 1:00 pm 
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zimagic wrote:
Wait, what? That's some serious addition & subtraction, right there!
Could you apply this to any deck? If I linked my Tasigur deck, you could work out the exact mix?


Yes. So far it has worked for me to make a starting lineup, then I tweak after play testing.
I could apply it toTasigur, or I could send you an Excel sheet that does all the math for you.

Sid the Chicken wrote:
zimagic wrote:
Wait, what? That's some serious addition & subtraction, right there!

I use a similar approach, though I've never attempted to write a formula for it. The idea is to have the ratio of colors in your landbase roughly mirror the ratio of colors in your spells, then tweak as needed - for example, if you're in 3 colors but you want to consistently have a certain one early on, you might skew the mana base toward that color a little.


Exactly. I also teach it when introducing new players to magic. The system also works for 60 Card magic fairly well in casual.

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Hazezon Tamar - Manland theme
Seshiro the Anointed - Snake Tribal
Jedit Ojanen of Efrava - Cat and Warrior Dual Tribal
Doran, the Seige Tower - Wall Tribal
Progenitus - Hydra themed Proliferate Deck
Karona, the False God - Backstabbing Hug


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 Post subject: Re: How do you build your manabase?
AgePosted: 2016-Jan-13 2:34 pm 
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I go through a very different process for putting together a land base for a deck...

1. How do my lands work towards my overall deck plan?

I think of my Wort deck as a good example... there's lots of great non-basic lands in RG, but a couple of my strongest win-cons are a copied Price of Progress or a copied Boundless Realms. To make those work, I need as many basics as possible, so almost none of those nonbasics make the cut.

Someone mentioned the cycle lands... they're another great example where they're bad cards in abstract, but in practice there are plenty of decks (ex, playing dredge, playing Astral Slide, Bruticus's value harvesting engine with Rings of Brighthearth + Crucible of Worlds) where you might need all of them. A general like Titania, Protector of Argoth is another good example; usually Evolving Wilds or Terramorphic Expanse are bad in mono-green, but with Titania you need every sac-able land you can get (in fact, you might even run something like Okina, Temple to the Grandfathers to give yourself an extra target for your own Tectonic Edge or Wasteland).

The deck's plan also gives me a starting point for how many lands I need to run. I usually start off with 39 lands + Sol Ring, then figure out whether or not I need the Sol Ring (it's not an auto-include for me), then add lands for a more aggressive deck, or cut lands for a slower deck (yes, I realize that sounds backwards).

2. What utility lands can I play?

I like utility lands. Like, REALLY LIKE them. Part of it's my general deck-building philosophy -- I feel like many (maybe even most) EDH players don't play enough lands for their mana curve, and playing more utility lands is an easy way to bump up the land count and still get spell effects. Same thing with creature-lands... maxing out on them is an easy way to keep both your land count and effective creature count high.

There are also a few lands that are so good that I'd include them instead of almost any comparable spell (I'm especially thinking of the Innistrad block utility lands). Running with the RG example, I'd play Kessig Wolf Run in a deck before any other X-burn/pump spell.

3. Is my deck green? Is it white? If neither, is it in allied colors?

Green obviously gives you a lot of opportunities to play fast and loose with your mana, but white also has a lot of good color-fixing options (mostly from the Land Tax/Tithe school of finding basics or plains to put in your hand). So usually my green/white decks get more utility lands and basics than non-green, non-white decks.

(Black also has a few color fixers, but not really enough to be special in this regard... although I like the Tainted Isle cycle quite a bit.)

There are more cycles of dual lands printed in allied colors than enemy colors, so for something like Rakdos or Azorius colors, I'll run down a different checklist of duals... I typically value Skycloud Expanse, Tainted Peak, or Darkslick Shores quite a bit more than the refuges or guildgates.

Izzet is the worst of the worst with color fixing... for Izzet colors, I don't mind running the guildgate or something like Swiftwater Cliffs... they're bad cards, but I usually feel like I need them.

4. How color-demanding are my cards?

I've had trouble explaining this in casual conversation, but I'll take a stab at it here... besides my suspicion that most players under-land their decks, I think most players don't respect the color intensity of the cards they want to play.

When you're counting up the mana ratios to figure out how many lands of a color to play, a deck with cards that cost BBB, GGG, and UUU, may look similar to a deck with cards that cost 2B, 2G, and 2U. In practice, however, the first deck is much more color "intense"... it's going to need much more dual land support than the second deck. This is usually when I go back and trim my utility lands; sometimes a deck can't support all the ones I want.

The timing for when you need your colors is important here too. Easiest example is rampy green decks... if they have green early, they can usually fix into whatever else they need, but they break down without it. So usually the fix is to skew heavier into green (even if the raw cost ratios suggest otherwise).

My Sidisi, Brood Tyrant deck is a good example... it's a dredge deck that wants to play Sidisi early and multiple low-CMC creatures a turn. So I need green early on to play a ramp creature and get Sidisi out, but then after that I need a lot of BB UB UG, etc. As a result, I find myself constrained on colors sometimes (and end up playing cards like City of Brass as a result).

I haven't come up with a satisfactory formula for how to handle intensity and timing (Read the Bones? Consult the Necrosages!), so usually I fix it in testing.

5. What lands do I have on-hand? How expensive is it for me to get them?

I don't own many of the original duals, Zendikar fetches, or Lorwyn/Shadowmoor filters, so sometimes my options are more constrained than I like. Sometimes I'll splurge and get a couple extra lands, but there's a few that aren't worth it to me.

Sidisi's a good example again; she'd be much better with original duals and the fetches to find them, but she wouldn't be wouldn't be $700 better.

Oh yeah, and playtesting!

It's the best part! I tweak and tune decks constantly... sometimes a list needs a couple land swaps, and sometimes there's no good land combination to support certain cards... sometimes you just can't make enough black to support your Pestilence Demon...

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 Post subject: Re: How do you build your manabase?
AgePosted: 2016-Jan-14 2:21 am 

Joined: 2011-Aug-18 3:35 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
I start with 34 lands. I have run as few as 29 for a goblin deck that ran fine on 3-4 mana and as many as 38 for a landfall deck because lands were literally better than other spells. I'll usually run 14-20 nonbasics depending on the colors in the deck and what else is needed. I won't play more than 4-6 that enter tapped. I always run at least 10-15 basics.

If I find mana issues in testing I will tweak the balance of basics (if color related) or add additional card draw or land search like Wayfarer's Bauble. I will not add additional lands. A cheap draw spell that can dig me into land drops or pitch extra lands is generally superior to a basic in most games as is a colorless ramp effect/ramp engine. Land/ramp tutors are the only tutors I will play.


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 Post subject: Re: How do you build your manabase?
AgePosted: 2016-Jan-14 2:47 am 

Joined: 2013-Aug-20 4:37 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Boston
Epsilon wrote:
I start with 34 lands. I have run as few as 29 for a goblin deck that ran fine on 3-4 mana and as many as 38 for a landfall deck because lands were literally better than other spells. I'll usually run 14-20 nonbasics depending on the colors in the deck and what else is needed. I won't play more than 4-6 that enter tapped. I always run at least 10-15 basics.

Does your group have pretty generous mulligan rules? 34 lands is roughly equivalent to 20 in 6-card magic.


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 Post subject: Re: How do you build your manabase?
AgePosted: 2016-Jan-14 3:16 am 

Joined: 2008-Nov-30 12:36 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
JJackson wrote:
Epsilon wrote:
I start with 34 lands. I have run as few as 29 for a goblin deck that ran fine on 3-4 mana and as many as 38 for a landfall deck because lands were literally better than other spells. I'll usually run 14-20 nonbasics depending on the colors in the deck and what else is needed. I won't play more than 4-6 that enter tapped. I always run at least 10-15 basics.

Does your group have pretty generous mulligan rules? 34 lands is roughly equivalent to 20 in 6-card magic.

Uh, my group plays with basically infinite free 7-card mulligans and 34 lands would be absolute suicide. Even in Edric, where 90% of the deck cost 3 mana or less, AND had access to green ramp spells, and I FREQUENTLY got mana-screwed running 36 lands.

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