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 Post subject: Repay in Kind
AgePosted: 2015-Oct-21 8:24 pm 

Joined: 2015-Mar-04 12:43 am
Age: Drake
I'm posting here to ask you all for your opinion on Repay in Kind.

More precisely, I'm considering including it in my Marchesa deck, the card being both flavourful and strong there.
However, I'm worried of crossing a line. I'm not playing Sorin, still with cards such as Treasonous Ogre or Unspeakable Symbol, it's a very powerful win "out of nowhere" condition (albeit risky).
And Biorhythm is banned for a reason.

I think our playgroup is fairly run-of-the-mill. Although not competitive, we don't shun powerful cards or plays, at least until they clearly qualify as unfun for a majority of us. Which I'm afraid might be the case here.

What do you think? Under what cirumstances would you play Repay in Kind? or would you not play it at all?
Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: Repay in Kind
AgePosted: 2015-Oct-22 12:07 am 

Joined: 2008-Aug-08 6:34 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Rouen, France
It's fine if you're not paying stacks of life just to spam it. It's the way you play it, on any given day it will be annoying as hell or epically great. If someone plays lifegain, this is good to pull them back.

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 Post subject: Re: Repay in Kind
AgePosted: 2015-Oct-22 12:11 am 

Joined: 2013-Aug-20 4:37 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Boston
I don't think the fair use of Repay in Kind is ever going to be upsetting, so its use in conjunction with the life payment costs is really the only thing to worry about.

Ultimately, I think it depends on how hard on combo your group is (and how many of the free pay life costs you have). Without something like Lich, you are still going to have to get through with creatures to actually win, so I think it will usually be fine. If your group is very strongly anti-combo, it might not fly.

The first time, at least, it will probably be amusing. I'd say just stick it in, and if it starts to frustrate people, cut it.


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 Post subject: Re: Repay in Kind
AgePosted: 2015-Oct-22 12:54 am 
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Joined: 2010-Dec-13 6:01 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Washington D.C.
It's a skill card; So not oppressive when Timmy uses it, but a combo-win card for Johnny. It's a rather balanced Magic card and it hits everyone. I'd rather someone cast this than cast Sorin 1.0 and target me.

EDIT: Ah, I now see the dilemma. Seems to be an issue when combined with your Treasonous Ogre card (I liked this combo when I was brainstorming a deck for her). As mentioned, two-card combo wins are fun only so many times. If you never take it out of the deck, your playgroup should eventually plan strategies to make sure it doesn't happen.

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 Post subject: Re: Repay in Kind
AgePosted: 2015-Oct-22 3:04 am 

Joined: 2009-May-05 9:45 pm
Age: Dragon
Location: Acworth, GA
zimagic wrote:
It's fine if you're not paying stacks of life just to spam it. It's the way you play it, on any given day it will be annoying as hell or epically great. If someone plays lifegain, this is good to pull them back.
(Emphasis mine)

I will admit, I have never really understood why people hide behind this. All the self policing should be happening in deck construction. Once the game has actually started, any punch pulling or "I have this but don't use it this way" is so patronizing, it actually upsets most people I play with on a similar level to straight cheating.

You have oops I win combos with the card, if that is not OK inside your group, then either don't play it or pull the combos.

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 Post subject: Re: Repay in Kind
AgePosted: 2015-Oct-22 4:23 am 
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Joined: 2012-Feb-07 4:15 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Buthrakaur wrote:
zimagic wrote:
It's fine if you're not paying stacks of life just to spam it. It's the way you play it, on any given day it will be annoying as hell or epically great. If someone plays lifegain, this is good to pull them back.
(Emphasis mine)

I will admit, I have never really understood why people hide behind this. All the self policing should be happening in deck construction. Once the game has actually started, any punch pulling or "I have this but don't use it this way" is so patronizing, it actually upsets most people I play with on a similar level to straight cheating.

You have oops I win combos with the card, if that is not OK inside your group, then either don't play it or pull the combos.

I have rarely ever agreed with a post as much as this one.

Ultimately, do whatever you want. If you want to run Repay in Kind and Ogre in the same deck, do it. But don't do it if you aren't willing to own up to the possibility that you could pull off a game-winning combo, because it's pretty condescending to have the ability to pull off a win ready and then not use it.

A personal example: In my Purphoros deck I do run both Kiki and Conscripts. And if they ever get into play at the same time, I will use them to win. However, my group is ok with that because:

1. I have very little draw power, and the only tutor I have is Goblin Matron. Also, I have literally zero creature recursion, so if either of them dies before or during the combo I won't be able to use it for the rest of the game.

2. They both provide a valuable function to the deck outside of the combo; Kiki synergizes with virtually every card in the deck including the general, while Conscripts has a universally useful effect that also doubles as the closest the deck gets to enchantment removal.

There's also the fact that I've ran the deck since Purphoros came out (3 years ago?) and the number of times that combo has ended a game is in the single digits.

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 Post subject: Re: Repay in Kind
AgePosted: 2015-Oct-22 5:11 am 

Joined: 2013-Aug-20 4:37 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Boston
Uktabi_Kong wrote:
Ultimately, do whatever you want. If you want to run Repay in Kind and Ogre in the same deck, do it. But don't do it if you aren't willing to own up to the possibility that you could pull off a game-winning combo, because it's pretty condescending to have the ability to pull off a win ready and then not use it.

1000000% this. However, I think that the extra hoops you'll need for Ogre+RiK to be a game winner probably mean that even if you have both, it will be right to wait for a safer moment to go for it. Putting everybody to 3 life is pretty bad if you don't have the dudes to finish everyone off.


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 Post subject: Re: Repay in Kind
AgePosted: 2015-Oct-22 7:45 pm 

Joined: 2015-Mar-04 12:43 am
Age: Drake
Thank you all. I'll get the card and try it out.


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 Post subject: Re: Repay in Kind
AgePosted: 2015-Oct-23 6:51 am 
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Joined: 2010-Jan-25 4:50 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
I run this card in my Kuro, Pitlord deck as a win condition card. I think it's important that each deck has at least 10 slots dedicated to cards that just end the game, and this is a good one. In order to make sure my games don't always end the same way and to have some variety, I don't use any tutors, even though I know the deck would be stronger if it did...

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 Post subject: Re: Repay in Kind
AgePosted: 2015-Oct-23 11:06 am 
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Joined: 2011-Jan-16 5:36 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Toronto, ON
I love this card.

I've used it a turn after battering someone into the single digits so I could kill the table.

I don't think I've ever paid down, or used a card like Lich or Phyrexian Unlife to make it an instant win.

I think if you're using it with ogre, it's totally reasonable. It's not like you put them at 0.

I think the final line is what your group thinks, though.

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 Post subject: Re: Repay in Kind
AgePosted: 2015-Oct-24 1:02 am 

Joined: 2015-Mar-04 12:43 am
Age: Drake
Bruticus wrote:
In order to make sure my games don't always end the same way and to have some variety, I don't use any tutors, even though I know the deck would be stronger if it did...

That's what I do for most of my decks too, including this one.
Even with a couple of reanimation effects, I'm going to need some luck to get the cards together.

Sinis wrote:
I think the final line is what your group thinks, though.

Correct. And if it ever becomes stale, I'll put something else in its place.


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