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 Post subject: Replacements for my tuck effects?
AgePosted: 2015-Mar-25 7:12 am 

Joined: 2011-Jul-19 6:28 am
Age: Drake
In light of the new rules regarding tucking of Commanders (imo I dislike) , since my play group follows ''official'' rules I'll be abiding by them till the decision is revoked.

I'm looking at my Daxos of meletis deck and see a few tuck cards that could be swapped out but Im unsure what I can replace them with.

Oblation is there a more efficient spell for the same task, loosing the power of 'commander-begone' does it weaken this card to much? (also play this in a token Marath deck)

Unexpectedly Absent though I'm unlikely to change this since casting for 0 to daxos any tasty nonland permanent is normally a sick play.

Spell crumple+Hinder These are the painful losses. So now I need some counterspells that could not make me hate this new rule. I already run the good counterspells so looking for others on this power level.

WTB 1UU - instant - counter target spell - if a commander is countered this way increase its tax by an additional 2
(i can dream)

Just wanted to add the only benefit I can think of with the new rule, Oblation/Chaos warp your own general to dodge removal and maybe gain value.

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 Post subject: Re: Replacements for my tuck effects?
AgePosted: 2015-Mar-25 7:27 am 

Joined: 2009-Oct-28 10:55 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Keep Oblation! It's a very versatile removal card. If you really must lose it, Fate Forgotten is good stuff. Consistently relevant.

Again, there's literally no reason to not play your tuck counterspells. They're anti-recursion. If you were only using them against Commanders, then the rules change was targeted at you. For shame.


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 Post subject: Re: Replacements for my tuck effects?
AgePosted: 2015-Mar-25 10:15 am 
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Joined: 2012-Sep-19 1:30 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Uh, you do realize that almost every tuck spell is still good for this format, right? Unless there is an equally/cheaper costed exile effect, tuck still helps you deal with indestructibles and graveyard shenanigans.

If you're looking specifically for anti-Commander cards, try Arrest, Faith's Fetters and the like. Darksteel Mutation works well, too. If you don't need your creatures to be anything special, run Humility.

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 Post subject: Re: Replacements for my tuck effects?
AgePosted: 2015-Mar-25 10:27 am 

Joined: 2013-Aug-20 4:37 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Boston
Nimbleroo wrote:
Oblation is there a more efficient spell for the same task, loosing the power of 'commander-begone' does it weaken this card to much? (also play this in a token Marath deck)
I've never been a fan of Oblation, though I can see its value in a token list. I'd suggest going for something like Oblivion Ring if you are just looking for a catch-all answer slot. Austere Command can also do some good work as a flexible removal spell.

Quote:
Spell crumple+Hinder These are the painful losses. So now I need some counterspells that could not make me hate this new rule. I already run the good counterspells so looking for others on this power level.
Dissipate is probably better than them as anti-recursion now. If you aren't running Dream Fracture, Arcane Denial, or Exclude, you should consider them. They are pretty good in multiplayer where going 1-for-1 with a single opponent puts the table up a couple of cards on you.


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 Post subject: Re: Replacements for my tuck effects?
AgePosted: 2015-Mar-25 12:23 pm 
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Joined: 2010-Jan-25 4:50 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Mindbreak Trap is great for exiling cards and gets around effects that say "can't be countered" with the bonus of dealing with storm, cascade, and it sometimes just randomly is free.

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 Post subject: Re: Replacements for my tuck effects?
AgePosted: 2015-Mar-25 1:33 pm 

Joined: 2010-Sep-11 12:19 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Bruticus wrote:
Mindbreak Trap is great for exiling cards and gets around effects that say "can't be countered" with the bonus of dealing with storm, cascade, and it sometimes just randomly is free.

I love randomly free effects that are already good.

I upvote Mindbreak Trap. I'm surprised its still under $10.


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 Post subject: Re: Replacements for my tuck effects?
AgePosted: 2015-Mar-25 3:23 pm 
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Joined: 2012-Sep-19 1:30 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
One option I forgot to mention before is Tawnos's Coffin - they either lose their commander until they destroy the coffin, or they uptick the cost by 2 and you do it again the next turn.

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 Post subject: Re: Replacements for my tuck effects?
AgePosted: 2015-Mar-26 3:26 am 
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Joined: 2011-Jan-02 5:25 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Costa La Haya, capital del ducado Holanda
That's a pretty trick. I need to find a Coffin (and a spot in my Glissa deck) as long as it's price is reasonable. A hard card to find though.

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 Post subject: Re: Replacements for my tuck effects?
AgePosted: 2015-Mar-26 7:03 am 

Joined: 2010-Sep-28 8:44 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Hamilton, ON
Helm of Posession is even better - you get thier commander as long as it's in play, and all you have to do is sacrifice a creature- which is a benefit half the time. One of my favorite cards in this format - and if you copy it you create a really scary machine.

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 Post subject: Re: Replacements for my tuck effects?
AgePosted: 2015-Mar-27 2:17 pm 
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Joined: 2011-May-02 11:07 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Chamber of Manipulation + sac outlet is my favorite

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 Post subject: Re: Replacements for my tuck effects?
AgePosted: 2015-Mar-29 12:02 pm 

Joined: 2011-Aug-18 3:35 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
There's always Vanishing or other reasonable phasing spells... Vanishing is amazing both offensively and defensively as it makes it nearly impossible to utilize their commander or kill yours.

Desertion is a great counter spell that gives you their commander.

Ixidron is another great "answer" as they'll be stuck face down til they can kill it.

It That Betrays is a colorless option. While most people hate annihilator, if you can force them to sac their general, it comes to you regardless of where it ends up.


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 Post subject: Re: Replacements for my tuck effects?
AgePosted: 2015-Apr-04 4:40 am 

Joined: 2015-Apr-04 3:24 am
Age: Wyvern
Location: San Jose, California
Epsilon wrote:
It That Betrays is a colorless option. While most people hate annihilator, if you can force them to sac their general, it comes to you regardless of where it ends up.

Does this work? Since your General going to the command zone was a replacement effect, you'd have the option to send it to the command zone before that trigger resolved.


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 Post subject: Re: Replacements for my tuck effects?
AgePosted: 2015-Apr-04 6:17 am 

Joined: 2013-Oct-09 7:02 am
Age: Elder Dragon
AnotherCounterspell wrote:
Epsilon wrote:
It That Betrays is a colorless option. While most people hate annihilator, if you can force them to sac their general, it comes to you regardless of where it ends up.

Does this work? Since your General going to the command zone was a replacement effect, you'd have the option to send it to the command zone before that trigger resolved.

I thought that it should work since it doesn't say "return it from the graveyard," but then I saw this:
Code:
If the sacrificed permanent that caused the second ability to trigger somehow leaves the graveyard before the ability resolves (possibly because it was returned to the battlefield by the ability of another It That Betrays), the ability simply won't do anything when it resolves.


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 Post subject: Re: Replacements for my tuck effects?
AgePosted: 2015-Apr-04 8:38 am 

Joined: 2009-Apr-21 3:38 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Palm Springs Area, CA
It that betrays steals sacrificed commanders from any public zone.

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 Post subject: Re: Replacements for my tuck effects?
AgePosted: 2015-Apr-04 10:10 am 
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Joined: 2013-Nov-04 2:12 am
Age: Dragon
Location: Northamptonshire, UK
The reason is because It That Betrays states "that card." That means that the card is tracked through the replacement effect.

The reason that Gatherer entry exists is for if you exile the card from the Graveyard (for example) after the trigger goes on the stack; as it's now in a different game zone, it's considered a different object. But the Commander replacement effect means that it never went to the Graveyard in the first place, so hasn't changed zones a second time.

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