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 Post subject: How best to build Gisela, Blade of Goldnight?
AgePosted: 2015-Mar-30 8:55 pm 

Joined: 2013-Jun-23 10:18 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Hello everyone,

So, I'm a little stumped. I've a Boros-shaped hole in my Commander box I've decided to fill with Gisela, Blade of Goldnight, the card that got me into EDH in the first place when I first started playing. However, I've no idea what to actually do with her that's interesting or different from the rest of my stable of decks, which is what got her disassembled in the first place.

Things I've considered and ultimately rejected include Tokens (effective, but linear and boring), Voltron (since I'm likely to either one shot people or be hated out of every game I'm part of, justifiably so), Tribal (can't pick a tribe I like), mass land destruction (social considerations), and Burn. Enchantress and artefacts are also covered by other decks, and I'm not enthused by Superfriends. What to do?

Well, there's a weird combo idea revolving around Gisela, Strionic Resonator and Undying Flames sitting at the back of my head, which I like but I'm not sure it's possible to assemble reliably against a goldfish, let alone a table of opponents prepared for my wackiness. This idea is the most tempting, but I don't want to assemble the whole deck only to find I can't even find my combo pieces before being beaten to death. Should I give this a go, or try something more, uh, realistic? And if the latter, anyone have any interesting suggestions for what to do with these colours?

_________________
Current Commanders: 6/32.

Daretti, Scrap Savant (Red Artefacts).
Prime Speaker Zegana (Simic Voltron).
Rubinia Soulsinger (Bant Polymorphs).
Kess, Dissident Mage (Grixis Treasure).
Sek'Kuar, Deathkeeper (Jund Apostles).
Tariel, Reckoner of Souls (Mardu Judo).


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 Post subject: Re: How best to build Gisela, Blade of Goldnight?
AgePosted: 2015-Mar-30 9:31 pm 

Joined: 2008-Aug-08 6:34 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Rouen, France
If you copy a spell with Epic then that copy will have the Epic ability. One thing red is known for is Fork/Reiterate type spells. Add in some triggered ability copying and a means to use the "useless" cards you'll be drawing every turn and you have the bones of a wacky, fun deck. You just need to find ways to balance the "Draco" type spells that do a huge amount of damage and the ones you will need to put everything together. I think it's not going to be a great deck, but could be interesting enough to warrant building.

_________________
Current decks:
Sydri's random pile of cards with "Artifact" on them
Scarab God Zombie Horde
Sissay 5c Superfriends
Morophon Eldrazi (5C Devoid)
Grenzo's Goblins


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 Post subject: Re: How best to build Gisela, Blade of Goldnight?
AgePosted: 2015-Mar-30 9:41 pm 

Joined: 2013-Jun-23 10:18 am
Age: Elder Dragon
I like the way you think.

Question: Does Undying Flames plus Radiate work the way I think it does?

_________________
Current Commanders: 6/32.

Daretti, Scrap Savant (Red Artefacts).
Prime Speaker Zegana (Simic Voltron).
Rubinia Soulsinger (Bant Polymorphs).
Kess, Dissident Mage (Grixis Treasure).
Sek'Kuar, Deathkeeper (Jund Apostles).
Tariel, Reckoner of Souls (Mardu Judo).


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 Post subject: Re: How best to build Gisela, Blade of Goldnight?
AgePosted: 2015-Mar-30 9:48 pm 
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Joined: 2010-Dec-10 12:16 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Swmystery wrote:
Hello everyone,

So, I'm a little stumped. I've a Boros-shaped hole in my Commander box I've decided to fill with Gisela, Blade of Goldnight, the card that got me into EDH in the first place when I first started playing. However, I've no idea what to actually do with her that's interesting or different from the rest of my stable of decks, which is what got her disassembled in the first place.

Things I've considered and ultimately rejected include Tokens (effective, but linear and boring), Voltron (since I'm likely to either one shot people or be hated out of every game I'm part of, justifiably so), Tribal (can't pick a tribe I like), mass land destruction (social considerations), and Burn. Enchantress and artifacts are also covered by other decks, and I'm not enthused by Superfriends. What to do?


Don't like Angel Tribal? Have you considered Tim effects? Normally it would be a UR or BR deck, but all the Prodigal Pyromancer type cards with Gisela could make for an interesting, political Sharpshooting type deck ("if you block that, I'll deal the extra damage to kill it" type deals).

Swmystery wrote:
Well, there's a weird combo idea revolving around Gisela, Strionic Resonator and Undying Flames sitting at the back of my head, which I like but I'm not sure it's possible to assemble reliably against a goldfish, let alone a table of opponents prepared for my wackiness. This idea is the most tempting, but I don't want to assemble the whole deck only to find I can't even find my combo pieces before being beaten to death. Should I give this a go, or try something more, uh, realistic? And if the latter, anyone have any interesting suggestions for what to do with these colours?


What are you hoping for that synergy to accomplish? Just getting two copies of Undying Flames each upkeep? That's better accomplished with a Fork when you cast the original spell (since copying the original will copy the Epic ability, giving two - or more - copies every upkeep. Though you always run the risk of running out of library before you win, since everything the Flames exiles stays gone. And if Gisela is killed after you use Undying Flames, you can't recast her any more.

Edit: Zimagic beat me to it.

Swmystery wrote:
I like the way you think.

Question: Does Undying Flames plus Radiate work the way I think it does?


It seems like it should. For the low cost of 11 mana you could cast Undying flames, radiate it to every creature, then get a copy on your upkeep for every copy that Radiate produced of the original spell.
Too bad there's no Paradox Haze in R or W.

But you can use Illusionist Bracers with Dual Casting on a creature to both copy the original spell and copy the copies each turn.

I know I've gotten 5 copies of Enduring Ideal before to get 5 more every upkeep thereafter.

_________________
V/R

HK

Hazezon Tamar - Manland theme
Seshiro the Anointed - Snake Tribal
Jedit Ojanen of Efrava - Cat and Warrior Dual Tribal
Doran, the Seige Tower - Wall Tribal
Progenitus - Hydra themed Proliferate Deck
Karona, the False God - Backstabbing Hug


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 Post subject: Re: How best to build Gisela, Blade of Goldnight?
AgePosted: 2015-Mar-31 2:44 am 

Joined: 2008-Aug-08 6:34 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Rouen, France
Treamayne wrote:

Swmystery wrote:
I like the way you think.

Question: Does Undying Flames plus Radiate work the way I think it does?


It seems like it should. For the low cost of 11 mana you could cast Undying flames, radiate it to every creature, then get a copy on your upkeep for every copy that Radiate produced of the original spell.


You get to target yourself as well. At worst you'll get a copy for each player in the game, at best you'll get 5-10 due to targeting any creatures. The only issue is hitting people for enough before you die to milling yourself. Perfect use for a Mirror of Fate if ever I saw one: When you get close to 0 cards, mirror back the 7 most expensive cards into your library.

Coincidently, you may not be able to cast spells but you will be able to put things into play so look at permanents those sorts of effects to be played in your pre-Undying Flames turns, e.g.: Quicksilver Amulet, Æther Vial, Copper Gnomes, Dragon Arch and all that sort of stuff.

You should also privilege permanents that repeatedly give you tokens so you have a means of protecting yourself.

_________________
Current decks:
Sydri's random pile of cards with "Artifact" on them
Scarab God Zombie Horde
Sissay 5c Superfriends
Morophon Eldrazi (5C Devoid)
Grenzo's Goblins


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 Post subject: Re: How best to build Gisela, Blade of Goldnight?
AgePosted: 2015-Mar-31 3:39 am 

Joined: 2013-Aug-20 4:37 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Boston
zimagic wrote:
You should also privilege permanents that repeatedly give you tokens so you have a means of protecting yourself.

And more tokens also means more targets when you Radiate it.


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 Post subject: Re: How best to build Gisela, Blade of Goldnight?
AgePosted: 2015-Mar-31 5:53 am 

Joined: 2013-Jan-07 1:45 am
Age: Dragon
Hmm. That's a weird combo deck.

I dunno if you're really soliciting opinions on RW in general, but, my experience with several decks goes roughly like this:

1) gisela is a terrible commander. She's too expensive, and when she hits play she's immediately the most threatening thing to every opponent. And these opponents see her coming. She gives them warning as the general. Each opponent will save spot removal from turn 1 just to hold for Gisela when you play her on turn 11.

2) gisela is great in other decks. She's insane in Kaalia. But she also complements any combat-based deck in RW or damage-based deck in RWx.

3) there's a lot of good combat-focused RW generals. Tajic is my favorite voltron; Aurelia, the warleader plays strong aggro, anax and cymede are good in a unique way; Brion Stoutarm makes for a great control & damage combo deck. You can play these decks different ways: a lot of sweepers in Tajic, a lot of combat tricks and auras in Anax and Cymede, Brion with a lot of threaten effects & life spend, Aurelia with efficient beaters and buffers. Any of these strategies plays into R/W strengths of: tokens, equipment, combat tricks, sunforgers, and in general efficient combat-related stuff. All of these are really helped greatly by Gisela somewhere in the deck.

_________________
Decklists:
Kothophed (mono black control, ETB abuse)
Teferi, Temporal Archmage (blue pillowfort superfriends)
Glint-Eye Nephilim (combat tricks, card draw, & creature pump)
Oloro Upkeep Tribal (enchantment-based control)
and more:Decklists


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 Post subject: Re: How best to build Gisela, Blade of Goldnight?
AgePosted: 2015-Mar-31 8:09 am 

Joined: 2014-Feb-28 1:49 pm
Age: Wyvern
I have tinkered my Gisela deck, and the most success I have had is to build as if it were a Voltron deck, but play her as the finishing move in a string of synergies. Expect much table hate.
I run it as a pure human/angel deck (and one god).

She will likely only hit the table once, maybe twice - so protect her, but don't rely on her.

I employ other mass damage doubler effects - Edict of the Twin Gods, Furnace of Rath, Curse of Bloodletting
i employ equipment damage doubler effects - Inquisitor's Flail, Fire Shrieker, ...

These don't necessarily need to be equipped to Gisela, because just being on the field will make all of your other creatures brutal.


Theoretically, a White Knight can swing for lethal: Gisela (x2), EotTG (x4), FoR (x8), CoB (x16), double strike (x32)


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 Post subject: Re: How best to build Gisela, Blade of Goldnight?
AgePosted: 2015-Mar-31 8:37 am 

Joined: 2013-Jun-23 10:18 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Thanks for the advice, everyone.

mmcgeach wrote:
I dunno if you're really soliciting opinions on RW in general, but, my experience with several decks goes roughly like this:

1) gisela is a terrible commander. She's too expensive, and when she hits play she's immediately the most threatening thing to every opponent. And these opponents see her coming. She gives them warning as the general. Each opponent will save spot removal from turn 1 just to hold for Gisela when you play her on turn 11.


Objectively speaking, you're probably correct. But as said, I have a particular attachment to this card that isn't really satisfied by just playing her in the 99. I understand this is likely to cause the deck problems, but as you can probably guess I'm not exactly interested in the strategically optimal line here. Thank you for your thoughts, though.

_________________
Current Commanders: 6/32.

Daretti, Scrap Savant (Red Artefacts).
Prime Speaker Zegana (Simic Voltron).
Rubinia Soulsinger (Bant Polymorphs).
Kess, Dissident Mage (Grixis Treasure).
Sek'Kuar, Deathkeeper (Jund Apostles).
Tariel, Reckoner of Souls (Mardu Judo).


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 Post subject: Re: How best to build Gisela, Blade of Goldnight?
AgePosted: 2015-Apr-01 3:48 pm 

Joined: 2011-Apr-07 11:38 am
Age: Elder Dragon
I have lots of RW decks.

I have a multiple attack steps / soldier deck with Agrus Kos, Wojek Veteran and an Aurelia, the Warleader deck based around creatures tapping for cool reasons. They were made to be played 2hg, but are effective on their own.

Gisela is really good at the helm of a controlling R/W deck. I have one that was made to emperor games with the 2 above decks as her lieutenants. It's based around protecting creatures and removing creatures from play. Key card it was made around is Pyrohemia.

Tajic is very build around. Just fill with mass removal and surprise creatures.

Iroas seems like a fun leader for a commander deck as well. I'd go a heavy enchantment rout and have lots of removal. So, the deck would be similar to what I've built for Tajic.

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http://legendarycommander.blogspot.com/

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