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 Post subject: Assault Suit question and strategizing
AgePosted: 2014-Oct-30 5:47 pm 
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Joined: 2008-Mar-24 12:14 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Oakland, CA
Looking at Commander spoilers, and wondering about Assault Suit . . . does it end the game in a draw (due to infinite checks of the trigger) if I have Endrek Sahr equipped and control seven or more Thrulls? Or does it just try to sacrifice him, fail, and move on exactly once every time state-based effects are checked? Pretty sure it's the latter but wanted to get a confirmation.

I'm surprised at how few positive interaction this card has with available Commanders. Obviously it's kind of nice with Kuro, Pitlord and (I think) Endrek Sahr and the Elder Dragon Legends. It's good with Shisato, Whispering Hunter if you don't have any other snakes, but I don't think I would want to build a Shisato deck that aims to do that, so it's more like a backup plan. I have always had a soft spot for Chisei, Heart of Oceans and this is practically an auto-include there as it still allows you to remove counters when you want to, but without forcing you to when you can't or would rather not. Karona, False God was going to change control anyway, so why not make sure she can't attack you or your Planeswalkers, and can't be sacrificed either?

Gallowbraid and Morenfin are so bad that this just doesn't matter. They're still bad. Commander Greven and Lord of Tresserhorn are good if you have a way of equipping it to them at instant speed when they are your only creature when they EtB, but that's a pretty difficult thing to accomplish consistently in any of those colors (Magnetic Theft; multiple copies of Assault Suit possibly from Mirrorworks, one of which is equipped to Brass Squire; or a Brass Squire that has been made not a creature somehow but still has its ability). Kiki-Jiki could be interesting in that your copies get to stick around and have combat steps under your opponents' control. Skeleton Ship would never be very relevant.

Anything I missed?


Last edited by intreped on 2014-Dec-14 4:00 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Assault Suit question and strategizing
AgePosted: 2014-Oct-30 7:51 pm 
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Joined: 2010-Jul-18 9:59 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
From the Gatherer rulings:
Quote:
9/25/2006: The second ability is a state trigger. Once it triggers, it won't trigger again as long as the ability is on the stack. If the ability is countered and the trigger condition is still true, it will immediately trigger again.
So it will trigger again, and again. I think it creates a mandatory loop and the game ends in a draw. But I'm not a judge.

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 Post subject: Re: Assault Suit question and strategizing
AgePosted: 2014-Oct-30 9:40 pm 

Joined: 2013-Jun-23 10:18 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Zurgo Helmsmasher is tailor made for this card. Switching control preserves his indestructibility, making him much likely to get back to you, and in the meantime it's likely one of your opponents will have dropped dead or taken 2/3 hits, making them easy pickings in future.

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Current Commanders: 6/32.

Daretti, Scrap Savant (Red Artefacts).
Prime Speaker Zegana (Simic Voltron).
Rubinia Soulsinger (Bant Polymorphs).
Kess, Dissident Mage (Grixis Treasure).
Sek'Kuar, Deathkeeper (Jund Apostles).
Tariel, Reckoner of Souls (Mardu Judo).


Last edited by Swmystery on 2014-Oct-31 12:05 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Assault Suit question and strategizing
AgePosted: 2014-Oct-30 11:55 pm 

Joined: 2013-Aug-20 4:37 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Boston
Viperion is right. State triggers will re-trigger any time the state is met and they aren't on the stack. Even if you have a sac outlet to get rid of some Thrulls, you are not forced to do so. Unless somebody wants to intervene (and again they aren't forced to do this, it is a choice), it will just keep retriggering. Loop consisting entirely of mandatory actions, game is a draw.

I'm a little sad that Assault Suit doesn't have a "must attack" clause on it. It is still going in my Rakdos the Defiler deck, but people are going to have to willing choose to take a dose when I pass him along.


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 Post subject: Re: Assault Suit question and strategizing
AgePosted: 2014-Oct-31 12:53 am 
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Joined: 2011-Jan-02 5:25 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Costa La Haya, capital del ducado Holanda
Swmystery wrote:
Zurgo Helmsmasher is tailor made for this card. Switching control preserves his indestructibility, making him much likely to get back to you, and in the meantime it's likely one of your opponents will have dropped dead or taken 2/3 hits, making them easy pickings in future.


That's a great idea that makes me want to build that deck! Did you come up by this on your own?

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 Post subject: Re: Assault Suit question and strategizing
AgePosted: 2014-Oct-31 1:37 am 

Joined: 2013-Jun-23 10:18 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Shabbaman wrote:
Swmystery wrote:
Zurgo Helmsmasher is tailor made for this card. Switching control preserves his indestructibility, making him much likely to get back to you, and in the meantime it's likely one of your opponents will have dropped dead or taken 2/3 hits, making them easy pickings in future.


That's a great idea that makes me want to build that deck! Did you come up by this on your own?


Not exactly. One of my best friends runs a Zurgo list and spotted the potential for easy Commander kills. The rest is just icing on the cake.

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Current Commanders: 6/32.

Daretti, Scrap Savant (Red Artefacts).
Prime Speaker Zegana (Simic Voltron).
Rubinia Soulsinger (Bant Polymorphs).
Kess, Dissident Mage (Grixis Treasure).
Sek'Kuar, Deathkeeper (Jund Apostles).
Tariel, Reckoner of Souls (Mardu Judo).


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 Post subject: Re: Assault Suit question and strategizing
AgePosted: 2014-Nov-02 6:49 pm 
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Joined: 2011-Nov-16 1:14 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Prague, Heart of Europe
LOL!!! That Zurgo tech is spicy. He actually HAS to attack, too :)

JJackson wrote:
I'm a little sad that Assault Suit doesn't have a "must attack" clause on it. It is still going in my Rakdos the Defiler deck, but people are going to have to willing choose to take a dose when I pass him along.
Goblin Diplomats, Warmonger Dragon, Fumiko the Lowblood, Avatar of Slaughter :!: ...

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 Post subject: Re: Assault Suit question and strategizing
AgePosted: 2014-Nov-04 6:30 am 

Joined: 2008-Jun-20 7:38 am
Age: Elder Dragon
I'm putting it in my Ruhan deck for extra chaos!

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 Post subject: Re: Assault Suit question and strategizing
AgePosted: 2014-Nov-11 6:27 am 
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Joined: 2007-Mar-28 12:38 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Omaha
Suiting up Phyrexian Negator and Jagged Poppet is something I'm looking to manage. Curiously, those are in the colors of Rakdos the Defiler...hmm...also Pestilence and Pyrohemia...


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 Post subject: Re: Assault Suit question and strategizing
AgePosted: 2014-Nov-11 6:51 am 

Joined: 2013-Jan-07 1:45 am
Age: Dragon
Shabbaman wrote:
That's a great idea that makes me want to build that deck!

Lol. I also want to build this deck now.

What about putting it on something that gives you a bonus for attacking? Like, augury adept, or shadowmage infiltrator or in a deck with edric, spymaster of trest? You know, to give people that EXTRA incentive to attack with it. Help your friends and punish your enemies all at once!

Avatar of slaughter does seem good with this... also, bitter feud? Curse of predation, curse of bloodletting?

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 Post subject: Re: Assault Suit question and strategizing
AgePosted: 2014-Dec-12 5:55 pm 

Joined: 2011-Aug-18 3:35 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
I'm not 100% sure on this but with the revised wording of Goblin Welder it seems like it should be a nice combo with this...

If I target an artifact creature with the suit attached, it's still a "legal target" for the ability as it's an artifact I control but it just can't be sacrificed. Do I still get the artifact back from my graveyard? It's no longer an "exchange" which is all or nothing. It's worded as a simultaneous sac/recur now which is relevant for timing but shouldn't stop it from working as worded.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong with this idea.


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 Post subject: Re: Assault Suit question and strategizing
AgePosted: 2014-Dec-12 9:39 pm 
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Joined: 2009-Jun-02 3:54 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Germany, near Berlin
Welder... works great. It was (re)worded to mimic a real exchange as close as possible - but not perfectly.
Welder's ability doesn't care whether the artifact can be sacrificed - nor does it care whether the artifact card can enter the battlefield (Worms of the Earth and Voult of Whispers).

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Rakdos, Lord of Riots (Demon Tribal)
Melek, Izzet Paragon (Dragonstorm) -> these must stay because of a house rule


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 Post subject: Re: Assault Suit question and strategizing
AgePosted: 2014-Dec-15 7:40 pm 
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Joined: 2012-Dec-03 3:16 am
Age: Elder Dragon
I built a deck around Assault Suit and Zurgo, as I think this could be a very fun game that would be abnormal enough. I did include more tutors than normal and really built it so that it is more voltron than I care for, but figured if everybody gets to enjoy the smashiness that is Zurgo suited up he might live a few turns...

http://mtgcommander.net/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=17199

Let me know what you think!

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With perfect mana, reasonable removal, disruption, and card advantage, we're back to pitchforks and torches. And it's about to get worse for those who do not enjoy the game as Richard Garfield intended, playing as few win conditions as possible and prompting concession after all hopes (and spells) are lost. - Shaheen Soorani


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