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 Post subject: Re: Cremation Revisited
AgePosted: 2013-Dec-30 4:29 am 
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Joined: 2011-Jan-16 5:36 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Toronto, ON
intreped wrote:
Did you bump for M14?

Hmmm, I guess I can add Grim Return and Rise of the Dark Realms to the "good cards that can be used semi-effectively as GY hate" category. Heh, it'll be great when someone uses Grim Return Twincast to counter another player's Grim Return.

Fixed that for you.

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 Post subject: Re: Cremation Revisited
AgePosted: 2014-Jan-28 12:53 pm 
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Joined: 2007-Jan-05 12:58 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Shoe wrote:
Is this updated for Theros? This is so far down the list of posts...needs to be sticky!

Seems like a good idea. If anyone has other comprehensive guides or primers like this one in mind, bump it or write it and let me know.

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 Post subject: Re: Cremation Revisited
AgePosted: 2014-Feb-03 11:17 am 
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Joined: 2008-Mar-24 12:14 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Oakland, CA
Updated. Near as I can tell, Theros and Born only added 3 new cards that can even be considered graveyard hate, and all of them went into the pseudohate category: Underworld Cerberus, Psychic Intrusion, and Fated Return.

I know I haven't been as present on these forums as I used to be, but I'll still be checking in from time to time and updating these things.


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 Post subject: Re: Cremation Revisited
AgePosted: 2014-Feb-10 5:46 am 
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Joined: 2011-Nov-16 1:14 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Prague, Heart of Europe
The 'Tutors' section is missing THE most-used way in my group to get graveyard hate - Trinket Mage. I also sometimes use Wargate for this purpose.

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 Post subject: Re: Cremation Revisited
AgePosted: 2014-Feb-22 8:10 pm 

Joined: 2014-Feb-14 4:18 pm
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Good list, however Faerie Macabre in the trap section can't get around Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir. If you check gather it states you can your the ability only anytime you could cast an instant. Unless there is something I'm missing.


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 Post subject: Re: Cremation Revisited
AgePosted: 2014-Feb-22 8:31 pm 

Joined: 2014-Feb-06 3:07 pm
Age: Drake
Teferi doesn't interfere with activated abilities, just spells. You can still cycle cards and discard Faerie Macabre; you just can't cast them outside of Sorcery speed.

Also when I found this thread I insta-Favorited it. Amazing resource, 5/5 would use again and again.


Last edited by Knightaru on 2014-Feb-22 8:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Cremation Revisited
AgePosted: 2014-Feb-22 8:33 pm 
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Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Midgard
MiniDragon wrote:
Good list, however Faerie Macabre in the trap section can't get around Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir. If you check gather it states you can your the ability only anytime you could cast an instant. Unless there is something I'm missing.

The Gatherer rulings are only reminding the player the ability can be activated at any time, not that discarding Faerie Macabre is an actual instant. Teferi doesn't stop players from using abilities, and this is an ability.

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 Post subject: Re: Cremation Revisited
AgePosted: 2014-Feb-23 10:22 am 

Joined: 2013-Aug-20 4:37 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Boston
And more generally, when an ability refers to "whenever you could cast a sorcery" or "whenever you could cast an instant" those times are unaffected by anything that changes when you can actually cast sorcery or instant spells. For an example in the other direction, Vedalken Orrery won't let you activate Grinning Ignus on on opponent's turn.


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 Post subject: Re: Cremation Revisited
AgePosted: 2014-Feb-25 9:06 am 
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Joined: 2008-Feb-29 5:57 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Duvall, WA
I see that you have Steamclaw in the "Junk" section...for mono-red, steamclaw is the BEST GY hate. it's repeatable targeted hate. I even play it in R/U sometimes since it Exiles instead of tucks.

It probably qualifies as outclassed, but it some colors (see red) it's the best option....it and Junktroller


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 Post subject: Re: Cremation Revisited
AgePosted: 2014-Feb-26 6:13 pm 
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Joined: 2008-Mar-24 12:14 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Oakland, CA
Shoe wrote:
I see that you have Steamclaw in the "Junk" section...for mono-red, steamclaw is the BEST GY hate. it's repeatable targeted hate. I even play it in R/U sometimes since it Exiles instead of tucks.

It probably qualifies as outclassed, but it some colors (see red) it's the best option....it and Junktroller

I say Steamclaw is pretty badly outclassed, even in colorless. I would much rather play Reito Lantern which can be used many times in one turn if necessary, or just play Phyrexian Furnace and Scrabbling Claws and use them often enough to keep graveyards clear. If I'm already running Furnace AND Claws AND Tormod's Crypt AND Junktroller and I still want more GY hate, I would first add Trading Post and/or Salvaging Station for recursion of all the little cogs. Then, if I've added all of that and I still want more GY hate, I would probably add Reito Lantern. And if I still want GY hate after that, Steamclaw might make it, although at that point I would probably start looking at pseudohate (cards that are good enough on their own and tend to disrupt graveyard strategies as a side-effect).

I agree that Junktroller is really good, though. Definitely not the "junk" that its name implies.


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 Post subject: Re: Cremation Revisited
AgePosted: 2014-Mar-12 5:16 am 
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Joined: 2010-Dec-13 6:01 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Washington D.C.
intreped wrote:
I agree that Junktroller is really good, though. Definitely not the "junk" that its name implies.

It's controlling the junk. I believe that WoTC just bastardized the word Controller to fit their naming needs :)

EDIT: They could have made it a Troll Golem though... that would have been nifty.

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 Post subject: Re: Cremation Revisited
AgePosted: 2014-Mar-12 7:34 am 

Joined: 2013-Aug-20 4:37 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Boston
Troll can also mean carefully and systematically search an area for something.


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 Post subject: Re: Cremation Revisited
AgePosted: 2014-Jun-11 6:30 pm 
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Joined: 2013-Aug-29 9:48 pm
Age: Wyvern
I've always had a soft spot for Void Maw, and in my experience it's been pretty useful as well. It keeps creatures from hitting graveyards when they die, and then it can selectively dump them back into graveyards for your own reanimation purposes, OR dump them all back into a graveyard and become huge. It also has fun political uses, and if you want to you can leave those creatures exiled forever. It's not perfect, but it's such a fun creature to play with!


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 Post subject: Re: Cremation Revisited
AgePosted: 2014-Jun-11 11:38 pm 

Joined: 2013-Aug-20 4:37 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Boston
Void Maw also has cool rules history. It didn't work when it was first printed because it wasn't exiling cards (because it is a replacement effect it was the effect that actually killed the creature exiling it), they tried some errata that was super ugly to make it work, and ended up changing the comp rules to make it work as printed.


Last edited by JJackson on 2015-Oct-20 2:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Cremation Revisited
AgePosted: 2014-Jun-12 12:39 am 
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Joined: 2013-Aug-29 9:48 pm
Age: Wyvern
JJackson wrote:
Voidmaw also has cool rules history. It didn't work when it was first printed because it wasn't exiling cards (because it is a replacement effect it was the effect that actually killed the creature exiling it), they tried some errata that was super ugly to make it work, and ended up changing the comp rules to make it work as printed.


Ha, cool trivia as well! Void Maw is my man. Do you have any idea what the ugly errata was?


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