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AgePosted: 2008-Oct-05 7:10 pm 
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Joined: 2008-Sep-15 10:38 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Portland, OR
Compare Time Vault to Grindstone. Both are cheap colorless artifacts that combo with other cheap colorless artifacts. Grindstone plus Painter's Servant kills one player. Time Vault plus any artifact untapper kills the entire table. Time Vault combos are not only more powerful than Painter's Grindstone, they're also more easily assembled. Grindstone requires one other specific card to become deadly, while Time Vault combos with at least ten other cards. Even more so than Grindstone, Time Vault is an "answer this now or lose" kind of card.

Plus it costs about $100. Any card that's as powerful as Time Vault looks and as expensive as Time Vault is is ban-worthy in my book.


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AgePosted: 2008-Oct-05 8:26 pm 

Joined: 2008-Aug-17 1:21 pm
Age: Drake
Your just mad because you don't own one lol.


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AgePosted: 2008-Oct-08 7:21 am 

Joined: 2008-Jan-07 7:53 pm
Age: Hatchling
paperwarrior wrote:
Compare Time Vault to Grindstone. Both are cheap colorless artifacts that combo with other cheap colorless artifacts. Grindstone plus Painter's Servant kills one player. Time Vault plus any artifact untapper kills the entire table. Time Vault combos are not only more powerful than Painter's Grindstone, they're also more easily assembled. Grindstone requires one other specific card to become deadly, while Time Vault combos with at least ten other cards. Even more so than Grindstone, Time Vault is an "answer this now or lose" kind of card.


What he said. Plus, Tezzeret is a fine card on its own, even if they do destroy the Time Vault that it fetches. Grindstone and Servant are kind of useless without eachother, and one doesn't fetch the other to assemble the combo. Time Vault needs to be banned.


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AgePosted: 2008-Oct-08 3:46 pm 

Joined: 2008-Jan-11 10:50 am
Age: Wyvern
Location: Philadelphia, PA
i say let it prove itself, and it isnt expensive enough that monetary cost should be a factor. it will most likely end up needing to get the axe but it should earn it through play not speculation.

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AgePosted: 2008-Oct-08 4:37 pm 

Joined: 2008-Aug-17 1:21 pm
Age: Drake
Just stop your complaining because come December 1st it will 99% surely be banned. It doesn't need an emergency ban.


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AgePosted: 2008-Oct-08 4:49 pm 
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Joined: 2008-Sep-15 10:38 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Portland, OR
TrialbyFire wrote:
Just stop your complaining because come December 1st it will 99% surely be banned. It doesn't need an emergency ban.

Fair enough. People should still know that it's most likely going to get the axe soon, though, so they don't run out and buy it.


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AgePosted: 2008-Oct-09 3:20 pm 

Joined: 2008-Aug-17 1:21 pm
Age: Drake
I concede to that point. Unless they play Vintage too


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AgePosted: 2008-Nov-03 2:59 am 

Joined: 2008-Aug-27 12:08 pm
Age: Wyvern
Of those who want Time Vault to be banned, how many of you have an infinite combo inherent to your deck? Or how about a single attack phase with your General that kills one player? Or even agro generals on the whole? Time Vault has but one ban-able aspect, it is expensive. To point out the obvious, the card is 100% target-able while on the stack and in play. Also, it is not any more broken than the other Time Walk effects that still run rampant. The first person to suggest that Time Stretch has the drawback of an intense mana cost deserves a Catholic Nun Ruler Slapping for opening your mouth without thinking before hand. Stretch is an auto include in every blue deck. It's a Sorcery, and it bares the converted mana cost of 10. And everyone plays it if they can. The only reason to ban Time Vault is the monetary value of the card. But hey, Mishra's Workshop still isn't banned.


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AgePosted: 2008-Nov-03 4:35 am 

Joined: 2008-Aug-02 10:17 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Darklantern wrote:
i say let it prove itself, and it isnt expensive enough that monetary cost should be a factor. it will most likely end up needing to get the axe but it should earn it through play not speculation.


my thoughts exactly, as the arcum deck in the goldfish challenge showed, TV can be very powerfull, but i can also be shattered, naturalized, disenchanted..... an arcum player that gets his general out turn 3 should let everyone on the table know its better to keep 2 mana open to kill the artifact creature.....

If it does prove a problem, it can still be banned. But im very much in favor of keeping that list as short as possible (even if im not gonna own any of the cards on there any time soon)

paperwarrior wrote:
Fair enough. People should still know that it's most likely going to get the axe soon, though, so they don't run out and buy it.

a card that's so abuseable that just got re-errata'ed (how do you spell that?) to make it abuseable should let everyone think twice before running out and buying it

and if they dont, they'll prolly have the € 80 to burn anyway :wink:

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AgePosted: 2008-Dec-15 12:56 pm 

Joined: 2008-Sep-09 9:54 am
Age: Dragon
Location: New England
Is there a consensus from Worlds as to an official ruling on Time Vault?

I thought today was the day.

--->DJ


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AgePosted: 2008-Dec-15 2:01 pm 
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Joined: 2008-Dec-15 1:53 pm
Age: Wyvern
I too await this decision fingers crossed.

Would really like to keep using it :? rather than watch it collect dust again.


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AgePosted: 2008-Dec-15 4:55 pm 
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Joined: 2007-Sep-10 2:51 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Rittman, OH USA
Thirded! I hope it is banned XD

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AgePosted: 2008-Dec-19 10:19 am 

Joined: 2008-Nov-11 9:25 pm
Age: Wyvern
Location: California
JesterScepter1217 wrote:
Of those who want Time Vault to be banned, how many of you have an infinite combo inherent to your deck? Or how about a single attack phase with your General that kills one player? Or even agro generals on the whole? Time Vault has but one ban-able aspect, it is expensive. To point out the obvious, the card is 100% target-able while on the stack and in play. Also, it is not any more broken than the other Time Walk effects that still run rampant. The first person to suggest that Time Stretch has the drawback of an intense mana cost deserves a Catholic Nun Ruler Slapping for opening your mouth without thinking before hand. Stretch is an auto include in every blue deck. It's a Sorcery, and it bares the converted mana cost of 10. And everyone plays it if they can. The only reason to ban Time Vault is the monetary value of the card. But hey, Mishra's Workshop still isn't banned.


how do i want to respond to this...: As I've played more and more EDH I've become increasingly aware of the disparity in power levels from play group to play group. People that make statements like the one above have probably never played against a tight well tuned deck whose sole purpose is to take advantage of timevault/voltaic key(tezzeret). time vault combo is 4 mana on two cards that says "I win this 4 player multiplayer game on turn 5!!!!" it does it consistently. Shit, time vault decks can do it a high percentage of times against my duel tuned mono-blue. Time Vault combo is beatable... but jesus is it a headache, and the biggest annoyance: TIME VAULT COMBO DECKS PLAY THE EXACT SAME GAME EVERY SINGLE GAME: boring!

I don't know, I think I'm just spending a lot of words in order to not be rude. basically, jesterscepter, your statement is wrong, and wrong on many different levels... However, I am glad that your play group does not take realistic advantage of time vault because it isn't really that fun for a play group that obviously doesn't (successfully) run any elements of control to play against.

(p.s. my mono-blue doesn't run time stretch because the card, contrary to popular belief, isn't good)


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AgePosted: 2008-Dec-19 11:53 am 
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Joined: 2007-Sep-10 2:51 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Rittman, OH USA
I agree with that last part, Time Stretch in Mono-Blue is not so great.
But Time Stretch in anything with green, and especially 5-color is ridiculous.

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