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AgePosted: 2009-Mar-13 12:05 pm 

Joined: 2009-Feb-13 1:50 pm
Age: Wyvern
latrodectus55 wrote:
I disagree on the Sphinx issue.
Yes, it is powerful, but it only hits one person.
It's also easy to deal with Sphinx recursion with gy hate or StP effects.

Also, if someone hits you with a Sphinx trigger, and every other person on the table kills you for having only 10 life, they really need to look into their 'threat management' skills. Unless you deserved it. Then... tough shit.


It's not about threat management...it's about low-hanging fruit. Who are you more likely to attack? The threatening guy with 40 life, or the weak one with 2. 9 times out of 10, you'll kill the guy with 2 to get them out of the way.

One easy solution would be to make Sphinx liable to the "Test of Endurance Rule," so that it sets life totals to 20 instead of 10. That actually makes it better as a defensive weapon too while retaining the original intent of the card.


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AgePosted: 2009-Mar-13 2:36 pm 
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Joined: 2008-Mar-24 12:14 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Oakland, CA
Snowden wrote:
One easy solution would be to make Sphinx liable to the "Test of Endurance Rule," so that it sets life totals to 20 instead of 10. That actually makes it better as a defensive weapon too while retaining the original intent of the card.

Test of Endurance's EDH-specific errata was removed (or never existed in the first place; I can't remember). I don't approve of Sphinx getting format-specific errata. It's sloppy. I would rather continue to see it played against me as is than reintroduce that mess.

But yeah, life totals are completely irrelevant to "Who's a threat?" unless you happen to have Squall Line or Aladdin's Ring or something. It's a pretty good principle to take out a player when you can in FFA, unless you can get someone else to invest their resources to take them out for you.


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AgePosted: 2009-Mar-13 2:46 pm 

Joined: 2009-Feb-13 1:50 pm
Age: Wyvern
intreped wrote:
But yeah, life totals are completely irrelevant to "Who's a threat?"


Here's where we disagree. Life totals are (mostly) irrelevant in EDH until they get low. If you can easily eliminate someone with few resources, you do it. Having below 10 life makes it require fewer resources. Also, given the number of Earthquake, Squall Line and Pestilence-like effects in any given multiplayer game, 10 life tends to just disappear naturally (in my specific case I just happen to die to Thrashing Wumpus activations that had nothing to do with me).

I prefer not to errata things as well, but when a format is completely different from the format the card was created for, it often makes sense to alter the rules or the card as such (this actually happened for 2HG, where life totals are treated differently than in normal matches...Magister Sphinx would take a team life total from 30 to 25 in a game of 2HG, believe it or not. For the curious, this is because Sphinx targets a player, and when setting life totals in 2HG you consider only that player's half of the total. So one player's life is 15 for the Sphinx, you set that to 10, then add it back to the other player's 15, for 25...that's the layman explanation, but it's basically the case I believe...someone correct me if I'm off on that).


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AgePosted: 2009-Apr-19 10:37 pm 

Joined: 2009-Apr-19 9:56 pm
Age: Hatchling
I vote that Gifts Ungiven and Fastbond be banned from EDH.

I'm really sick of Johnny, the combo player sitting at my table and decksterbating his win 10-15 minutes on his 4th-5th turn. It's edh man, go back to vintage and die. Take Flash-Hulk with you.

*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
"A Day With the Flash-Hulk Player" by: Naz

-- "I win."

"What?! What do you mean 'You win'? The game hasn't started yet! I'm taking the first turn."

-- "No, I win on turn 0 - before the game starts."

"What?!!"

-- "Yeah, I know, right? I'm playing Flash-Hulk."

"So, what's the point of playing magic, if the game is over before the game begins?"

-- "To win. I win! :D "

...
.....
.......

(The End).

*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

Please don't let this happen to EDH - its the only fun format left.

Fastbond and Gifts have format-breaking potential. Save EDH! Save Magic!

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AgePosted: 2009-May-10 3:36 pm 

Joined: 2009-Mar-30 3:05 pm
Age: Hatchling
Location: Hamilton, ON
I agree that there are some really strong cards like Fastbond and Gifts Ungiven, but I really think Magister Sphinx takes the cake.

We have now banned it in 1 vs. 1 matches in my playgroup because it has caused some ridiculous game swings. I do know it's a singleton format, but I do play with Sharuum as a General and there are so many ways to abuse Magister Sphinx with the Esper colours.

Just a few examples:

1 game, opponent at 70 life, I was able to swing for 19, then played Magister Sphinx next turn off of a sick Enigma Sphinx cascading into a Sphinx Summoner to fetch the Magister and the win.

Another game, Child of Alara vs. Captain Sisay. Sisay is over 70 life and Child deck top decks a Magister Sphinx to save his butt and wins soon after.

I know sometimes it can be used as a defensive tactic to reset your life to 10, but most of the time it is on the offensive. Being that I have abused it and have been abused by it. I really don't think it's that fair of a card.

Another card that could fit this category is Sundering Titan especially against 5 colour decks that just get pwned by Titan.

Just my 2 cents.

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AgePosted: 2009-May-10 4:51 pm 

Joined: 2008-Jun-20 7:38 am
Age: Elder Dragon
srancour wrote:
I agree that there are some really strong cards like Fastbond and Gifts Ungiven, but I really think Magister Sphinx takes the cake.

We have now banned it in 1 vs. 1 matches in my playgroup because it has caused some ridiculous game swings. I do know it's a singleton format, but I do play with Sharuum as a General and there are so many ways to abuse Magister Sphinx with the Esper colours.

Just a few examples:

1 game, opponent at 70 life, I was able to swing for 19, then played Magister Sphinx next turn off of a sick Enigma Sphinx cascading into a Sphinx Summoner to fetch the Magister and the win.

Another game, Child of Alara vs. Captain Sisay. Sisay is over 70 life and Child deck top decks a Magister Sphinx to save his butt and wins soon after.

I know sometimes it can be used as a defensive tactic to reset your life to 10, but most of the time it is on the offensive. Being that I have abused it and have been abused by it. I really don't think it's that fair of a card.

Another card that could fit this category is Sundering Titan especially against 5 colour decks that just get pwned by Titan.

Just my 2 cents.


Having tons of life never locks the game for you in EDH unless you're sitting on Test of Endurance waiting for your next upkeep, simply because of the general rule. Assuming that you're fine because you've gained a lot of life is just asking to lose.

Sundering Titan, while a bit on the lame side, serves as a deterrent to making a 5 color deck and running nothing but dual lands for a mana base. It's honestly a mono color deck's best friend and one of the few things keeping 5 color decks remotely balanced.

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AgePosted: 2009-Jul-13 6:14 pm 
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Joined: 2009-Jul-13 6:05 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Monmouth, OR
Sundering Titan is fine. In a nutshell, it doesn't hit nonbasics, which is huge, and it isn't exactly devasating against a monocolored deck.

Yes, Titan is powerful. But for an 8 mana creature, I expect that creature to have a powerful impact on the gamestate. I find mass-LD effects like Decree of Annihilation, Geddon, Jokulhaps, etc. to be much more devastating than Titan.

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 Post subject: Re: "Ban card X... it wins too many games in my area!"
AgePosted: 2009-Jul-22 8:56 am 

Joined: 2009-Jul-06 12:38 pm
Age: Wyvern
My 2 cents about magister sphinx:

It's a great way for a control deck to combat life gain. I play esper colors, and last night I was matched up in a game against an enchantress style deck. He kept recurring lifelink type auras, and Magister was pretty much my only way to combat the amount of life he was gaining at the time. After sovereign hit the table, I still ended up losing, due to his lifegain negating my damage output. (He also made it quite obvious that he was digging for his copy of test of endurance.)

All in all, it's a bomb when it hits the table, against one opponent only, but it's not necessarily going to win a game for you or cause someone else to lose it. It only effects one player at a time, unlike effects including but not limited to Kokusho and Sway of the Stars. I think that an errata replacing 10 life with 20 life would be fair, but banning it seems quite sketchy.

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 Post subject: Re: "Ban card X... it wins too many games in my area!"
AgePosted: 2009-Jul-23 12:14 pm 
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Joined: 2007-Sep-10 2:51 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Rittman, OH USA
If you errata it to 20 life, you might as well have banned it.
No one would play it at that, it would be bad.

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 Post subject: Re: "Ban card X... it wins too many games in my area!"
AgePosted: 2009-Jul-23 12:34 pm 
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Joined: 2007-Mar-28 12:38 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Omaha
When people complain about it "Taking one player from 70 to 10," isn't it just doing what ti's supposed to?

There's no errata on Test of Endurance, none on Divinity of Pride, none on Rune-Tail (I think that's the one?), so there shouldn't be one on Magister Sphinx.

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AgePosted: 2009-Jul-23 9:43 pm 
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Joined: 2009-Feb-14 11:25 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Winfield, KS
Artos wrote:
Having tons of life never locks the game for you in EDH.... simply because of the general rule.


which is why i love phelddagrif!

he has built in evasion. giving your opponents 2 life to smash in for 4+ general damage seems like a fair trade :]

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 Post subject: Re: "Ban card X... it wins too many games in my area!"
AgePosted: 2009-Aug-02 6:44 pm 

Joined: 2009-Aug-02 6:37 pm
Age: Hatchling
Here's a list of cards I think should be banned:

Zur the Enchanter (As a General/Should be self-explanatory)
Leyline of the Void (Either this or Helm of Obedience, and Helm isn't OP on its own)
Vedalken Illusionist (Anything that can facilitate a turn 1 win seems OP)


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 Post subject: Re: "Ban card X... it wins too many games in my area!"
AgePosted: 2009-Aug-02 10:31 pm 

Joined: 2009-Jun-21 11:49 pm
Age: Dragon
JarethVarant wrote:
Here's a list of cards I think should be banned:

Zur the Enchanter (As a General/Should be self-explanatory)
Leyline of the Void (Either this or Helm of Obedience, and Helm isn't OP on its own)
Vedalken Illusionist (Anything that can facilitate a turn 1 win seems OP)


Never faced a Zur deck, so I'll defer to those who have on that issue. The Leyline of the Void/Helm of Obedience combo isn't any worse than the million other two-card kills out there and neither is really abusive on its own (in fact, Leyline is a rather important method for hosing graveyard shenanigans), so I'd say both stay legal. And Vedalken Illusionist isn't even listed in Gatherer, so I don't know what you're referring to.

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 Post subject: Re: "Ban card X... it wins too many games in my area!"
AgePosted: 2009-Aug-03 12:27 pm 
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Joined: 2009-Jul-09 11:26 am
Age: Drake
Location: Cookeville, TN.
I actually like the banned list as is, With the exception that perhaps that Time Stretch finally finds it way home.

some of these purposed bans are just flat out rediculous

Magister Sphinx: Sure going from 40 to 10 is bad, and it sucks for whoever that happens to, but there is plenty of lifegain to be had, Life gain is really good in FFA matches. I've seen people recover from a tinkered Magister, I've seen people who cast magister get their face caved in because they are likely running alot of GY recursion and Momentary blink. Magister Sphinx also as a fairly nobel use in the environment. it brings the guy who has done nothing but cast Beacon of imortality a few times back to earth. that reason alone should be reason enough to keep it around.

Leyline of the void: Graveyard Recussion is too widespread and good in this format to start reducing answers. Plus layline doesn't remove cards already in the bins so it loses it's power each turn it's not in play. and you have a 7% chance of it being in any opening hand so 93% of the time it's not at optimal power. and 98% of those times it's practically useless. Layline\Helm combo is usually good enough to kill 1 person but then you find you're dead before the person you killed hits the floor. it's the drawback of those 2 card insta-kill combos, you become a flagbearer of sorts.

Meddling Mage: in EDH it reads Ban Target General. Make Friends, influence people, watch as he gets "insert removal spell here"

Sundering Titan: Blood Moon is a bigger problem in EDH than Titan. and the only thing keeping Blood Moon legal is Mono-red's lack of popularity in the format. Titan only hits basic lands, the old school duals and ravnica duals, and the shadowmoor uncommon lands. which in 80% of the EDH decks that list will comprise maybe a quarter of the deck's lands. wheras Bloodmoon will turn most deck's mana production red\colorless and a 90% swath.

Zur (As General): There are 3 very important factors working against a zur banning. 1 his activated ability is based on putting him in the red-zone, where his small body is no match for everyone's akroma's. He's not hasty meaning everyone has a turn to kill him before he can work his voodoo. His voodoo isn't that great. Enchantments (in UWB mind you) under 3 pretty limits his power to Necropotence, Phyrexian Arena, Arcane Lab, Declaration of Naught, and a handfull of auras, all of which die to the first resolved O-stone, disk, akroma's vengance, planar cleansing, leaving you to try to start again.

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 Post subject: Re: "Ban card X... it wins too many games in my area!"
AgePosted: 2009-Aug-03 10:16 pm 
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Joined: 2009-Feb-14 11:25 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Winfield, KS
JarethVarant wrote:
Vedalken Illusionist


?

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