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 Post subject: EDH Banned List
AgePosted: 2011-Apr-06 12:30 pm 

Joined: 2011-Apr-06 12:04 pm
Age: Egg
So obviously if I build an EDH deck I want to build one that I can play with anyone so I follow the suggested banned list. However, a lot of this list just doesn't seem to make much sense. I have compiled a lits of cards that just don't make sense to me so if anyone can explain that would be appreciated.

Kokusho - Exsanguinate is fine but this guy is too good? Seriously?

Lion's Eye Diamond - So it's fast mana, So what? I can play Sol Ring, Mana Crypt, and Mishra's Workshop. How is LED better?

Metalworker - As a 1 of in a 99 card deck is this really going to make your mono brown decks too good?

Panoptic Mirror - I get the whole infinite turns thing but you have to go a whole turn without this card being destroyed. I think the fun factor outweighs the potential lameness for this card.

Recurring Nightmare - This is at best a 3 card combo that is constantly weak to graveyard hate, counterspells, and stp. I just don't get it.

Tolarian Academy - Is fast mana really that scary?

Also why isn't Mind over Matter banned? Isn't the fact that this the problem card in a 2 card win condition in any blue deck enough to make it ban worthy?

I'm not trying to complain I'm just confused about these cards and maybe you can set me in the right direction.


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 Post subject: Re: EDH Banned List
AgePosted: 2011-Apr-06 12:39 pm 
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Joined: 2010-Mar-03 10:07 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Hi! I wrote a post about a month ago addressing this very thing at length. The tl;dr version is that under the current RC and given the current dynamic of slow(ish) multiplayer for which the format was intended, the cards you mention aren't going anywhere. MoM seems like a borderline case but since it's 2UUUU it certainly doesn't go in enough decks to be both ubiquitous AND degenerate.

And yes, fast mana IS that scary. I like my EDH games to go past turn 2, thanks, and Artifact Decks do just fine without Academy.

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As for blue- being boring/infuriating by crushing everyone else's fun until it assembles a cheeseball combo is pretty much what it DOES.


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 Post subject: Re: EDH Banned List
AgePosted: 2011-Apr-06 1:38 pm 
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Joined: 2009-Dec-22 7:59 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Brunswick
Kokusho is about the only thing that has a chance of getting off the banned list, but that mostly depends on the RC looking at him in the current environment instead of also factoring in his time with Recurring Nightmare. Pretty much everything else isn't going to change because the cards are either completely broken, or we can't play with out completely breaking them.

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 Post subject: Re: EDH Banned List
AgePosted: 2011-Apr-06 2:36 pm 
EDH Rules Committee
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Joined: 2010-Mar-15 2:19 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Denver, CO
Short version:

Kokusho is banned because creatures are a lot easier to repeatedly recur than sorceries.

Lion's Eye Diamond is banned because it has little use outside of infinite mana combos.

Metalworker is banned because it can easily tap for 12 mana the turn after you play it.

Panoptic Mirror is banned because of people imprinting Time Warp effects at end of turn.

Recurring Nightmare is banned because it's immune to enchantment destruction and switching creatures with ETB abilities for just 2B is way overpowered in EDH. Imagine repeatedly exchanging, say, Kokusho and Primeval Titan.

Tolarian Accademy is banned because it often taps for 6 mana the turn you play it, and 12 mana shortly thereafter.

Mind Over Matter is not currently banned because it is a six mana enchantment that requires another card to be useful.

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 Post subject: Re: EDH Banned List
AgePosted: 2011-Apr-06 5:12 pm 

Joined: 2010-Mar-26 5:45 pm
Age: Dragon
There are a few cards which vintage revolves around:
ancestral recall
vault/key
Yawgmoth's will

Then there are cards are just crazy in vintage, one of those is tolarian academy.

Basically, people generally win when they resolve one of those.

In edh, yawg will isn't as powerful because people don't play a lot of rituals into tendrils.

The others are banned.

As for panoptic mirror, that card would just be crazily good. There is a reason why recurring a sorcery over and over isn't something we want people to do.


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 Post subject: Re: EDH Banned List
AgePosted: 2011-Apr-06 5:35 pm 
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Joined: 2008-Nov-08 5:27 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Canberra
sk17 please read herodotusjr's post. It's very good.

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 Post subject: Re: EDH Banned List
AgePosted: 2011-Apr-07 1:03 am 
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Joined: 2008-Aug-08 6:34 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Rouen, France
We're trying to keep all the banned list discussions in Rules so I'm going to move this. Feel free to post here or in any of the other 174 banned list threads.

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