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 Post subject: Rules/Game State question
AgePosted: 2010-Oct-26 2:29 pm 

Joined: 2010-Sep-20 4:34 pm
Age: Drake
Location: Beaverton OR
I have a game situation i need a opinion on guys thanks for you input in advance!

My oppnt controls a Mimic Vat and Gideon Jura animates gideon and attacks. In response to his attack i Path to Exile his Gideon. When I declare that in response he imprints it on the Vat when its headed to the graveyard. Can he do that??


Is the vat really that awesome???? :shock:

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 Post subject: Re: Rules/Game State question
AgePosted: 2010-Oct-26 2:34 pm 

Joined: 2010-Sep-11 12:19 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
your opponent is trying to cheat.


Last edited by Joz on 2010-Oct-26 2:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Rules/Game State question
AgePosted: 2010-Oct-26 2:38 pm 
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Joined: 2009-Nov-30 10:27 pm
Age: Drake
Location: Issaquah, WA
If Gideon is a creature when he is sent to the graveyard, the ability on Mimic Vat will trigger, and since no card type is specified, Gideon can be imprinted. However, Path to Exile does not send Gideon to the graveyard, so in that specific instance it would not work.

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 Post subject: Re: Rules/Game State question
AgePosted: 2010-Oct-26 2:43 pm 

Joined: 2010-Sep-20 4:34 pm
Age: Drake
Location: Beaverton OR
Experttexpert wrote:
If Gideon is a creature when he is sent to the graveyard, the ability on Mimic Vat will trigger, and since no card type is specified, Gideon can be imprinted. However, Path to Exile does not send Gideon to the graveyard, so in that specific instance it would not work.


What a jerk he said it would touch the grave before being exiled. Im gonna call him on that when I see him next. :x Either way thats good to know because popping out a 6/6 token every turn really isn't something to ignore.

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 Post subject: Re: Rules/Game State question
AgePosted: 2010-Oct-26 2:45 pm 
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Joined: 2008-Feb-29 5:57 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Duvall, WA
toxicnecrotic wrote:
Experttexpert wrote:
If Gideon is a creature when he is sent to the graveyard, the ability on Mimic Vat will trigger, and since no card type is specified, Gideon can be imprinted. However, Path to Exile does not send Gideon to the graveyard, so in that specific instance it would not work.


What a jerk he said it would touch the grave before being exiled. Im gonna call him on that when I see him next. :x Either way thats good to know because popping out a 6/6 token every turn really isn't something to ignore.



the token will not be a 6/6, copy effects only copy the printed card so the tokes will all be planeswalkers that are not creatures unless he chooses to use the "Ultimate"


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 Post subject: Re: Rules/Game State question
AgePosted: 2010-Oct-26 2:50 pm 

Joined: 2010-Sep-20 4:34 pm
Age: Drake
Location: Beaverton OR
Shoe wrote:
toxicnecrotic wrote:
Experttexpert wrote:
If Gideon is a creature when he is sent to the graveyard, the ability on Mimic Vat will trigger, and since no card type is specified, Gideon can be imprinted. However, Path to Exile does not send Gideon to the graveyard, so in that specific instance it would not work.


What a jerk he said it would touch the grave before being exiled. Im gonna call him on that when I see him next. :x Either way thats good to know because popping out a 6/6 token every turn really isn't something to ignore.



the token will not be a 6/6, copy effects only copy the printed card so the tokes will all be planeswalkers that are not creatures unless he chooses to use the "Ultimate"


so let me see if I understand what you are saying mimic vat will make a Gideon Jura token? So the token has all the abilities of the original planeswalker?

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 Post subject: Re: Rules/Game State question
AgePosted: 2010-Oct-26 3:27 pm 

Joined: 2009-May-08 6:45 am
Age: Dragon
Location: Reading, UK
You are correct, toxic. The token will be an exact copy of the physical card. Which means you can destroy a tapped creature or swing with a 6/6. Neither of which are too shabby for 3 mana.

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 Post subject: Re: Rules/Game State question
AgePosted: 2010-Oct-26 3:35 pm 

Joined: 2010-Sep-20 4:34 pm
Age: Drake
Location: Beaverton OR
holy crap a reusable planeswalker that's freaking nuts :shock: :shock: thanks for the input guy's

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 Post subject: Re: Rules/Game State question
AgePosted: 2010-Oct-26 3:38 pm 
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Joined: 2010-May-24 10:53 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: OH
Hehe, "touches" the graveyard on the way to exile? Anything that sounds so silly should be a red flag next time. It's not a linear path. If it says it goes to exile, it goes to exile: Do not pass go, do not collect $200. Watch out for this guy.

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 Post subject: Re: Rules/Game State question
AgePosted: 2010-Oct-26 3:41 pm 

Joined: 2010-Sep-11 12:19 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
And kick him in the groin.


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 Post subject: Re: Rules/Game State question
AgePosted: 2010-Oct-26 3:42 pm 
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Joined: 2009-Oct-18 8:52 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Oz
/shrug tokens touch the yard before being rfg, so it's not completely nonsensical.
But, yeah, exile is a different story.

To do: Mimic Vat (will have to be imaginary) my own Gideon (also imaginary) and then find a way to use his first ability during my opponent's turn(s).

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 Post subject: Re: Rules/Game State question
AgePosted: 2010-Oct-26 3:46 pm 

Joined: 2010-Sep-20 4:34 pm
Age: Drake
Location: Beaverton OR
I know better next time now thanks for your help and input guys/gals

on a different note mimic vat seems just crazy any other cool ideas to do with it?

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 Post subject: Re: Rules/Game State question
AgePosted: 2010-Oct-26 4:03 pm 
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Joined: 2009-Oct-18 8:52 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Oz
Anything with EtB, LtB or sac effects

Obvious:
Solemn Simulacrum
Palinchron
Sundering/Primeval Titan

Less obvious:
Godo, Bandit Warlord
Rishadan Brigand
Aphetto Alchemist
Shambling Shell

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 Post subject: Re: Rules/Game State question
AgePosted: 2010-Oct-26 5:05 pm 

Joined: 2008-Aug-02 10:17 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Daf wrote:
To do: Mimic Vat (will have to be imaginary) my own Gideon (also imaginary) and then find a way to use his first ability during my opponent's turn(s).


Not possible. the use of planeswalker abilities is tied to the stack being empty, on your turn. The ability is worded in such a way that you cannot find a loophole (I know, the funny thing about loopholes is that you dont expect them, but no, there isnt one here. Trust me)

Quote:
208.2. An activated ability with a loyalty symbol in its cost is a loyalty ability. Loyalty abilities follow special rules: A player may activate a loyalty ability of a permanent he or she controls any time he or she has priority and the stack is empty during a main phase of his or her turn, but only if none of that permanent's loyalty abilities have been activated that turn. See rule 606, "Loyalty Abilities."


This rule has also been "fixed" so that if you turn a planeswalker into a creature (Gideon makes it easy, but in the past Mycosynth Lattice and march of the machines did that for others) and copy the abilities with Kraj or his friends you don't get infinite planeswalker activations.

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 Post subject: Re: Rules/Game State question
AgePosted: 2010-Oct-26 7:56 pm 
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Joined: 2009-Oct-18 8:52 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Oz
24x30cl wrote:
Daf wrote:
To do: Mimic Vat (will have to be imaginary) my own Gideon (also imaginary) and then find a way to use his first ability during my opponent's turn(s).
Not possible.... with relevant citations and well constructed explanation.
Yeah, I know it's not possible. /pout
Still, it'd be cool (the first time) though. /whistful sigh

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