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 Post subject: inquiry into the color restriction of cards in a deck
AgePosted: 2008-Apr-23 10:39 pm 

Joined: 2008-Apr-08 10:05 pm
Age: Wyvern
this is more a question out of curiosity, since I can't figure it out myself, but specifically, I was wondering about this rule

Quote:
The general's mana cost dictates what mana symbols may appear on cards in the deck. A deck may not generate mana outside it's colours; anything which would generate mana of an illegal colour generates colourless mana instead.

Example: If you were play Phelddagrif (Casting cost 1UWG) as your General, your deck may not contain any red or black cards; no card in such a deck may contain red or black mana symbols or hybrid mana symbols ( Talisman of Dominance, Life//Death and Boros Guildmage are not allowed. Degavolver is doubly bad).


so.. in the cited example with Degavolver (lets say its a mono white deck for simplicity), why can one not use it?

I mean Degavolver is a white creature... it just happens to have a black and red ability (that the white deck wouldn't be able to play anyways)

so basically, the white deck COULD use it as a vanilla 1/1 creature (for whatever reason)

I guess my confusion comes from the fact that while all the other rules I can see originate from extensive playtesting this one... I don't

I mean because of this rule

Quote:
A deck may not generate mana outside it's colours; anything which would generate mana of an illegal colour generates colourless mana instead.


every instance where a card that had 'off color mana' outside its casting cost in the upper right would have come up in a play test game, it would have been casted without the off color abilities (and there would be no plausible way to cast it WITH the off color abilities)

so... is that rule out of deck consistency? or was there some other reason or situation(s) that brought it up?


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 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2008-Apr-23 11:02 pm 

Joined: 2008-Mar-08 12:01 am
Age: Drake
It is mostly a flavor rule, and to avoid people using Squee, Goblin Nabob with compulsion or survival of the fittest (if your general doesn't include red).

This is just the way it is. If you don't like it convince your play group to ignore the rule.


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AgePosted: 2008-Apr-23 11:05 pm 

Joined: 2008-Apr-08 10:05 pm
Age: Wyvern
I'm fine with it, I can't say I like it, but I can't say I hate it either

I'm just mostly curious (as I said at the start of my post)

though I guess people still come across reading it as me trying to overturn the rules or something


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AgePosted: 2008-Apr-23 11:29 pm 

Joined: 2008-Mar-08 12:01 am
Age: Drake
another thing I just thought of is plague boiler. This would become an auto include for mono black and mono red decks, even though they wouldn't be able to play its activated abilites, because it would be able to take out enchantments which is something those colors can't do.


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AgePosted: 2008-Apr-23 11:50 pm 

Joined: 2008-Apr-08 10:05 pm
Age: Wyvern
but those decks probably already run oblivion stone (which I think is a bit better then the boiler)

those are artifact cases though, I was specifically wondering about cases akin to the degavolver one, where the card already had an aligned color


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 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2008-Apr-24 7:18 am 
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Age: Elder Dragon
Flavor not Function


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 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2008-Apr-24 11:38 am 

Joined: 2008-Apr-08 10:05 pm
Age: Wyvern
eh... but like I'm trying to say, in the case of Degavolver, because of the mana restriction rule, you CANNOT cast it as anything other then a 1/1 for 1W in a mono white deck (one could ask why you weren't running squire)

which is why I'm wondering how that rule developed in terms of playtesting


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AgePosted: 2008-Apr-24 4:12 pm 
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CrystalChaos wrote:
which is why I'm wondering how that rule developed in terms of playtesting


I'm sure that playtesting had very little to do with it. The rule is strictly for flavour, not power, so playtesting would yield irrelevant results. The reason you can't play Degavolver in a Razia deck is that Razia isn't a black character.

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AgePosted: 2008-Apr-24 4:46 pm 

Joined: 2008-Apr-08 10:05 pm
Age: Wyvern
hmm, so flavor wise, is Degavolver considered a white/red/black creature?


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AgePosted: 2008-Apr-25 7:52 am 
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CrystalChaos wrote:
hmm, so flavor wise, is Degavolver considered a white/red/black creature?


Flavor wise it can be whatever colors you want.

It's mana cost, however, says that it is a white creature with black and/or red activated abilities. The rules of the game currently limit this card to be played only in a deck that supports those three colors, even though it's a white creature.

CrystalChaos wrote:
though I guess people still come across reading it as me trying to overturn the rules or something


I don't think so. You just need to understand the subtly to the rules. And that just because one thing may be true it doesn't necessarily mean that something else will be. The rules are pretty linear and straightforward but there is a beautiful complexity to them that makes them pliable. People just have to go with the flow, so to say, and a lot of the arguments that go on concerning the rules would most likely be resolved before they started.


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AgePosted: 2008-Apr-26 11:23 am 

Joined: 2008-Apr-08 10:05 pm
Age: Wyvern
hmmm, so if it is actually considered a white creature, why the decision to only allow it in a deck that supported all its optional abilities? :?

I mean I still don't quite get it and it just appears like a coin flip made decision (though I'm guessing there's some reason behind it)


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AgePosted: 2008-May-14 8:30 am 

Joined: 2008-May-14 8:22 am
Age: Egg
I have a question about the Bringers from Fifth Dawn

I understand that flavor wise all the bringers fall into their color as determined by their mana cost, but under the current rules you can only play them in a five color deck. I also realize that your play group can change this rule to accommodate the bringers, but my playgroup is stubborn and won't let me play them. Is it possible to get around this?

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 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2008-May-14 10:49 am 

Joined: 2007-Jun-04 6:34 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Gainsville, FL
Tabasco wrote:
I have a question about the Bringers from Fifth Dawn

I understand that flavor wise all the bringers fall into their color as determined by their mana cost, but under the current rules you can only play them in a five color deck. I also realize that your play group can change this rule to accommodate the bringers, but my playgroup is stubborn and won't let me play them. Is it possible to get around this?


Beg nicely or play with a new playgroup? What is the root of the objection - are you abusing them? The black one in particular is pretty powerful, so I can see people saying no, but what others - blue and red? I mean local rules are just local and you have to go with the whims of your group or be more persuasive.

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