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What is going on with Rofellos?
http://mtgcommander.net/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4479
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Author:  Z4N5H1N [ 2010-Aug-20 1:42 am ]
Post subject:  What is going on with Rofellos?

If I'm reading everything on this site correctly, he was legal, then got banned, then was unbanned for over a year, and has recently been banned again? Is this right?

I'm relatively new to the EDH format, and I build my deck a few months ago, when Rofellos was legal as a general. My Type 2 deck is a Nissa Revane/Elvish Archdruid mono-green Elf deck...my Legacy deck is a 12-lord mono-green Aggro Elf deck...it was pretty much a no-brainer who I was going to choose for my general. Now, apparently my deck is useless. The whole thing is built around having awesome six-drop fatties for turn three. It's completely unplayable with a different general. Furthermore, building this deck took quite a bit of card-hunting and playtesting, and was a lot of effort in general. I don't really see myself doing this again any time soon, for what is essentially a casual format.

If I'm reading things right, and Rofellos is in fact re-banned...this might be the end of EDH for me.

One more thought: It's kind of lame that we even need a banned list for a casual format that is almost always played with friends (who are presumably capable of making kitchen-table rules when someone started abusing something.) No one I play with has complained about my Rofellos deck, purely because it's just not that broken. My friend's Uril deck (replete with something like 30 auras) stomps me regularly.

Author:  obsidiandice [ 2010-Aug-20 1:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What is going on with Rofellos?

Rofellos was banned for a very long time, as he is quite a powerful general. Then, last year, the EDH Rules Committee decided to unban him on probation and see how he did. After a year of people using him to win on turn 3-4 with Staff of Domination and Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, unbanning him was deemed a failed experiment.

The sad fact is that the cards that get banned for abusiveness are being used in a perfectly fun and healthy way by other people. This is, after all, the reason the banned list is considered "suggested" - if your friends don't mind you playing Rofellos, there's no reason for you to stop. House banning or un-bannings like you discuss are not only acceptable, but encouraged.

Author:  Z4N5H1N [ 2010-Aug-20 1:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What is going on with Rofellos?

obsidiandice wrote:
Rofellos was banned for a very long time, as he is quite a powerful general. Then, last year, the EDH Rules Committee decided to unban him on probation and see how he did. After a year of people using him to win on turn 3-4 with Staff of Domination and Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, unbanning him was deemed a failed experiment.

The sad fact is that the cards that get banned for abusiveness are being used in a perfectly fun and healthy way by other people. This is, after all, the reason the banned list is considered "suggested" - if your friends don't mind you playing Rofellos, there's no reason for you to stop. House banning or un-bannings like you discuss are not only acceptable, but encouraged.

Seems to me the better solution would be to ban Staff of Domination. Really, how many buh-roken infinite combos does a card need to be capable of to warrant a ban? And getting Emrakul out on turn 8 (the earliest you could with just forests and Rofellos) sounds way more like a hilarious fatty drop than anything game breaking. I mean, do people not run boomerangs or path to exiles in the current EDH metagame? By turn 8, a good Uril deck can have enough auras stacked on his general to make him at least a 15/15 flying. I've seen something like a 21/21 flying trample lifelink Uril, and not much later than turn 8.

But no, you're right, this is a casual format, and the banlist is suggested, and since no one I play with seems to mind that I play Rofellos, there's nothing keeping me from doing so. It's just a bit disappointing that he's on the list now, as even if my playgroup doesn't mind, it still feels a bit like cheating, and takes some of the fun out of winning.

Author:  Boshea [ 2010-Aug-20 2:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What is going on with Rofellos?

Worst case scenario you can swap your general for another mono-green legendary when playing with a new group.

Author:  Daf [ 2010-Aug-20 2:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What is going on with Rofellos?

Z4N5H1N wrote:
Seems to me the better solution would be to ban Staff of Domination.
Staff is also banned.
Rofl-os is only banned as a general, so you could run him in Omnath and tutor him out.

Author:  Z4N5H1N [ 2010-Aug-20 2:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What is going on with Rofellos?

Boshea wrote:
Worst case scenario you can swap your general for another mono-green legendary when playing with a new group.

My deck would tank pretty bad with a different general. Six-drops on turn six are a lot less cool than six-drops on turn three.

Daf wrote:
Z4N5H1N wrote:
Seems to me the better solution would be to ban Staff of Domination.
Staff is also banned.
Rofl-os is only banned as a general, so you could run him in Omnath and tutor him out.

Omnath guy seems cool, and this guy + tons of mana accel (which to some degree I have already, especially if I can get Rofellos out) could make for an interesting deck. I guess worst case scenario is I change the deck to have more mana accel and Omnath as general if anyone complains about Rofellos.

For the record, I still think it's a garbage ban. There's so much absurdly powerful mana accel that's legal in EDH, having a general that does it (and thus does it more consistently than anything in your maindeck) doesn't seem at all broken.

Author:  Daf [ 2010-Aug-20 3:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What is going on with Rofellos?

Z4N5H1N wrote:
having a general that does it (and thus does it more consistently than anything in your maindeck) doesn't seem at all broken.
Yet that's precisely why Roflos was banned as a General; he's broken because he's always available and can be recast over and over.

Author:  SweetRein [ 2010-Aug-20 3:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What is going on with Rofellos?

Z4N5H1N wrote:
And getting Emrakul out on turn 8 (the earliest you could with just forests and Rofellos) sounds way more like a hilarious fatty drop than anything game breaking. I mean, do people not run boomerangs or path to exiles in the current EDH metagame


Just wanted to mention here that:
You do know that Path to Exile and Boomerang can't target Emrakul, right?

Daf wrote:
Z4N5H1N wrote:
having a general that does it (and thus does it more consistently than anything in your maindeck) doesn't seem at all broken.
Yet that's precisely why Roflos was banned as a General; he's broken because he's always available and can be recast over and over.


And wanted to mention here that:
It was quite... disturbing to (playing my old Roffy deck) occasionally skullclamp off Roffy just to get him back into play untapped again when I had a haste-r in play.

Author:  Sid the Chicken [ 2010-Aug-20 11:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What is going on with Rofellos?

I believe he was also abused with Umbral Mantle and to a lesser extend, Sword of the Paruns. The mantle is especially relevant because it means that turn 3 if you don't have an answer to either the creature or the artifact, you're dead.

Author:  yawg07 [ 2010-Aug-24 9:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What is going on with Rofellos?

Playing Rofellos a lot, I'd often hit the 'crazy time' lol

Tap Rofellos for like 12
PlaySigil of Distinction
Sac Rofellos to Greater Good
Play him again with your lands
Equip the Sigil then Lightning Greaves/have Concordant Crossroads out
Tap for 12, sac him
Repeat a bunch

Author:  Glassthegrey [ 2010-Sep-07 12:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What is going on with Rofellos?

Z4N5H1N wrote:
For the record, I still think it's a garbage ban. There's so much absurdly powerful mana accel that's legal in EDH, having a general that does it (and thus does it more consistently than anything in your maindeck) doesn't seem at all broken.


Academy also banned
Channel also Banned
metalworker Banned for a while.

honestly I want to know what your definition of absurdity powerful (more powerful than a renewable LargeX accelerator that is difficult to be rid of) is. because the only large mana accelerator that I know of that's legal right now is Cabal Coffers, and it requires at least 1 more land to really take off (Urborg, tomb of Yagmoth) and at least 1 more land to become truely degenerate (Vesuva and\or Deserted Temple).

your posts resonates with me in the same way the "Whaaaaa my braids deck is worthless now that I can't consistently cast braids turn 2" Seriously you're in a mono green deck, Run Worldly tutor, sylvan tutor, Fauna Shamman, survival of the fittest, Defense of the heart, Natural Order, Summoner's Pact, Primal Command, Time of need, and\or tooth and nail.

10 that's 10 ways to tutor for rofellos. Run Omnath as your general have all sorts of fun with a mana pool that doesn't empty.

Author:  24x30cl [ 2010-Sep-08 5:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What is going on with Rofellos?

actually a friend of mine rebuilt his rofellos deck just like that, still kicks ass and is more fun to play against.

Author:  green slime [ 2010-Sep-10 6:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What is going on with Rofellos?

Switching to Omnath as a general and tutoring up Rofellos is a far better play anyway. With Omnath's manapool, and massive mana, it gets sick very quick. I just wish I could fihure out how to reliably tutor up Vedalken Orrery in mono-green...

Author:  24x30cl [ 2010-Sep-12 3:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What is going on with Rofellos?

Having the orrery in play with omnath is just sick. You really need to get rid of that thing before anything else.

Shriekmaw 60/60 Omnath? replay 57/57 Omnath :facepalm:

Author:  intreped [ 2010-Sep-12 5:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What is going on with Rofellos?

24x30cl wrote:
Shriekmaw 60/60 Omnath? replay 57/57 Omnath

I suppose this would be possible if you had some colorless mana in your mana pool for some reason, but typically I would expect the Omnath to shrink by at least -5/-5, 3 for his mana cost and 2 additional for recasting him.

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