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 Post subject: Spoilers are up, time to prematurely scream for bans
AgePosted: 2015-Mar-02 7:49 am 
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Joined: 2010-Oct-26 5:52 am
Age: Dragon
I figured I may as well do the honors, mostly since, well, just look at this thing:

~~~~~
Sidisi, Undead Vizier 3BB
Legendary Creature - Zombie Naga

Exploit (When this creature enters the battlefield, you may sacrifice a creature)

When Sidisi, Undead Vizier exploits a creature, search your library for a card, put it into your hand, then shuffle your library.
4/6
~~~~~

U WOT M8?! So let's just go over this: Commander you always have access to that's a self-sacrificing tutor on a stick that can then go fetch you whatever you need to abuse the everloving crap out of it, like say Corpse Dance, Chainer, Dementia Master, Coffin Queen, Dawn of the Dead, Sheoldred, Whispering One and many other cards, not to mention the possibility of just building Ad Nauseam combo if you are that kind of douche.

I don't think it's unfair to say this is probably the most powerful general WotC has dared to print since Griselbanned.

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Maluko wrote:
We need a clear set of objective rules so that everybody always knows what to expect, and how to prepare for it. As of now, I think I spend more time arguing with players about the format than I do playing fun and interactive games of Commander. And last time I read, this was not the format's purpose.

QFT


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 Post subject: Re: Spoilers are up, time to prematurely scream for bans
AgePosted: 2015-Mar-02 7:51 am 

Joined: 2010-Sep-11 12:19 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Goodbye Maralen, Hello Sidisi 10.0


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 Post subject: Re: Spoilers are up, time to prematurely scream for bans
AgePosted: 2015-Mar-02 8:10 am 
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Joined: 2009-Aug-20 7:49 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Hampshire
A possibly relevant question with this card; how do the two abilities (exploit and the "what you do when you exploit" clause) interact?

Specifically, is the second ability another trigger that can be responded to after the sacrifice is made, or is the entire thing one action?

The way I read it, you do not choose whether to exploit until the exploit trigger resolves. It also appears that choosing to snackrifice puts another trigger on the stack, which could then be responded to. Is this correct?

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"The President's job - and if someone sufficiently vain and stupid is picked he won't realize this - is not to wield power, but to draw attention away from it." -- Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide tot he Galaxy Radio Transcripts predicting the future.


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 Post subject: Re: Spoilers are up, time to prematurely scream for bans
AgePosted: 2015-Mar-02 8:14 am 

Joined: 2011-Sep-30 6:08 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Sid the Chicken wrote:
Is this correct?
We don' have that information yet.

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 Post subject: Re: Spoilers are up, time to prematurely scream for bans
AgePosted: 2015-Mar-02 8:15 am 
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Joined: 2010-Jul-18 9:59 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Yep two triggers.

Trigger 1: Etb: Exploit goes on the stack. While it is resolving you choose to sacrifice a creature, or not. If you do:

Trigger 2: When a creature is sacrificed due to exploit....

Both of these can be responded to. Note that Exploit doesn't target, so to prevent the sacrifice you'd have to kill all of the creatures (Sidisi *can* exploit/sacrifice herself)

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"Degenerate, unfun decks generally come from degenerate, unfun players in my experience." - Cthulus Thrall

"- if this spell is played ten times in a given game then I suggest you warm up the tar and pluck some chickens" - tarnar

The internet's great at making noise, and poor at operating pants. There's gonna be half-dressed mobs screeching half-assed arguments for the rest of the 21st century - Kemev


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 Post subject: Re: Spoilers are up, time to prematurely scream for bans
AgePosted: 2015-Mar-02 12:12 pm 

Joined: 2010-Dec-03 3:54 pm
Age: Drake
However, you can respond to the Exploit trigger by killing Sidisi, Undead Vizier. If they then choose to sacrifice a creature to Exploit, they have accomplished... sacrificing a creature.

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 Post subject: Re: Spoilers are up, time to prematurely scream for bans
AgePosted: 2015-Mar-02 12:50 pm 
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Joined: 2010-Oct-26 5:52 am
Age: Dragon
Muspellsheimr wrote:
However, you can respond to the Exploit trigger by killing Sidisi, Undead Vizier. If they then choose to sacrifice a creature to Exploit, they have accomplished... sacrificing a creature.


that's great and all, but you can just cast it again the following turn, because Commander. Being a commander also renders it immune to grave hate, and should it get tucked, black is the color with the best and most numerous tutors.

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Maluko wrote:
We need a clear set of objective rules so that everybody always knows what to expect, and how to prepare for it. As of now, I think I spend more time arguing with players about the format than I do playing fun and interactive games of Commander. And last time I read, this was not the format's purpose.

QFT


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 Post subject: Re: Spoilers are up, time to prematurely scream for bans
AgePosted: 2015-Mar-02 2:45 pm 

Joined: 2011-Sep-30 6:08 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Muspellsheimr wrote:
However, you can respond to the Exploit trigger by killing Sidisi, Undead Vizier. If they then choose to sacrifice a creature to Exploit, they have accomplished... sacrificing a creature.
There is no way to force the player to sacrifice a creature without getting a tutor out of it. You choose whether to sac on resolution of the ability, at which time you will know if Sidisi is in play to trigger.

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 Post subject: Re: Spoilers are up, time to prematurely scream for bans
AgePosted: 2015-Mar-02 8:18 pm 

Joined: 2015-Jan-14 2:58 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Thread title says it all. 3BB+2n for a reusable tutor seems like a combo wonderland, but for any strategy that's not boringly linear it's not worth it IMO. To get the best use out of her you need to sac her each time, which means you're paying over and over for a 4/6 body that you'll never get to use without threatening to make her one trick go away. Sure she's abusable, but she's not fun.

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Antis wrote:
I'm seriously suspicious of any card that makes Doubling Season look fair and reasonable.


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 Post subject: Re: Spoilers are up, time to prematurely scream for bans
AgePosted: 2015-Mar-02 10:33 pm 

Joined: 2012-Mar-31 11:52 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Spectrar Ghost wrote:
Thread title says it all. 3BB+2n for a reusable tutor seems like a combo wonderland, but for any strategy that's not boringly linear it's not worth it IMO. To get the best use out of her you need to sac her each time, which means you're paying over and over for a 4/6 body that you'll never get to use without threatening to make her one trick go away. Sure she's abusable, but she's not fun.

Well if the first card you tutor for is Corpse Dance, you're only paying 5 for each tutor. And mono black has no shortage of mana doublers.


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 Post subject: Re: Spoilers are up, time to prematurely scream for bans
AgePosted: 2015-Mar-02 11:03 pm 
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Joined: 2012-Feb-07 4:15 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
cryogen wrote:
Spectrar Ghost wrote:
Thread title says it all. 3BB+2n for a reusable tutor seems like a combo wonderland, but for any strategy that's not boringly linear it's not worth it IMO. To get the best use out of her you need to sac her each time, which means you're paying over and over for a 4/6 body that you'll never get to use without threatening to make her one trick go away. Sure she's abusable, but she's not fun.

Well if the first card you tutor for is Corpse Dance, you're only paying 5 for each tutor. And mono black has no shortage of mana doublers.

Why would you ever run Corpse Dance outside of an extremely linear deck anyway?

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 Post subject: Re: Spoilers are up, time to prematurely scream for bans
AgePosted: 2015-Mar-02 11:41 pm 
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Joined: 2010-Oct-26 5:52 am
Age: Dragon
Uktabi_Kong wrote:
cryogen wrote:
Spectrar Ghost wrote:
Thread title says it all. 3BB+2n for a reusable tutor seems like a combo wonderland, but for any strategy that's not boringly linear it's not worth it IMO. To get the best use out of her you need to sac her each time, which means you're paying over and over for a 4/6 body that you'll never get to use without threatening to make her one trick go away. Sure she's abusable, but she's not fun.

Well if the first card you tutor for is Corpse Dance, you're only paying 5 for each tutor. And mono black has no shortage of mana doublers.

Why would you ever run Corpse Dance outside of an extremely linear deck anyway?


because corpse dance is amazing? I'll pay 5 mana to reanimate the Terastodon I just sacrificed to Greater Good at instant speed so i can blow up three more things and draw nine more cards. Or reanimate any good ETB dude when you have sac outlets online.

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Maluko wrote:
We need a clear set of objective rules so that everybody always knows what to expect, and how to prepare for it. As of now, I think I spend more time arguing with players about the format than I do playing fun and interactive games of Commander. And last time I read, this was not the format's purpose.

QFT


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 Post subject: Re: Spoilers are up, time to prematurely scream for bans
AgePosted: 2015-Mar-03 1:53 am 
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Joined: 2009-Aug-20 7:49 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Hampshire
Spectrar Ghost wrote:
Thread title says it all. 3BB+2n for a reusable tutor seems like a combo wonderland, but for any strategy that's not boringly linear it's not worth it IMO. To get the best use out of her you need to sac her each time, which means you're paying over and over for a 4/6 body that you'll never get to use without threatening to make her one trick go away. Sure she's abusable, but she's not fun.

Exactly this. Running new Sidisi as a general seems like the kind of thing that will quickly become lame, even for the pilot. My advice? Just don't do it.

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"The President's job - and if someone sufficiently vain and stupid is picked he won't realize this - is not to wield power, but to draw attention away from it." -- Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide tot he Galaxy Radio Transcripts predicting the future.


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 Post subject: Re: Spoilers are up, time to prematurely scream for bans
AgePosted: 2015-Mar-03 2:35 am 

Joined: 2010-Sep-11 12:19 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
TL;DR

Corpse Dance is disgusting.


We know already.


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 Post subject: Re: Spoilers are up, time to prematurely scream for bans
AgePosted: 2015-Mar-03 2:54 am 
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Joined: 2011-May-04 9:09 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Saskatchewan
I am seriously wondering if Wizards is pushing the RC intentionally to see how firm they are on what they ban and what they don't ban and why. There was an article I was reading about how Biorythm was technically the first EDH card ever banned.


Then I saw this gem, and wondered if WotC is pushing buttons intentionally.
Image


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